Different mixes for the water injection and the down sides

[blkevo8]

I would like to know being new to WI, what are all the possibilities for WI mixtures. I have a Aquamist 2D on the way I am placing a 3.5gl. aluminum fuel tank in my trunk and my pump below for priming with the battery in the trunk as well. I have heard about washer fluid due to its lubrication effect, heard using a methynal mix but will it dry out the line and cause failure?? heard about peroxide???? no idea, I run in the gas tank Xylene and one of my reasons to moving to WI is to get away from having to constantly mix it plus its $5.80 a gl. now are folks putting tuelene or Xylene in the WI??? I mix some Magic mystery oil in with my mixtures of Xylene to keep pumps and lines lubed. Is there anything similar for WI??? What about Sunoco's Alki methyl fuel it has some kind of detergent in it. I would love to see a big discussion on this especially with the folks that have it going already. Hope I am in the right topic otherwise please move this thread to the right spot.

[AKWRX]

I mix some Magic mystery oil in with my mixtures of Xylene to keep pumps and lines lubed. Is there anything similar for WI??? What about Sunoco's Alki methyl fuel it has some kind of detergent in it. I would love to see a big discussion on this especially with the folks that have it going already.
Some additional lube for injection pumps is highly desireable. This helps break in, and also preserve the long term service life of the seals on the most commonly used positive displacement gerotro type pumps (same as those used as fuel pumps). The lube must be water soluble. Also. the lube should burn completly without any ash deposits, much like 2 cycle oil. Top cylinder lubes such as Marvel Mystery Oil simply don't cut the mustard. They are not water soluble and will separate out (stratify) in the tank. Klotz upper cylinder fuel lube sold as Uplon Fuel Lube Kl-107 (www.klotzlube.com) will do the job, even with high percentage alcohol mixes. There may be other brands that will also work, but I am unaware of them.

[Forum Admin]

Depending on the components different set ups have different mixture limits.

On aquamist you are limited to 50% methanol (methyl alcohol). Ethanol and isopropyl alcohol limits are too low to even consider using them. The seals will swell if you use the wrong ingredients or too much of an ingredient.

Many different setups run very well on 50/50 methanol/water. Heet in the yellow (not the red) bottles is a good source of methanol in the US.

Some use winterized windshield fluid in different kits - though I am aware of no adverse effects from the small amount of detergent - I have seen no pump/kit manufacturer explicitly recommend it.

[blkevo8]

Thanks for the info can't wait to get the system in place.

[blkevo8]

hey turbo ice I see that HEET in the yellow bottle comes in 12fl oz. what would be the mix on a 3 1/2 gal. tank, would this be all that you would add I am trying to go low maintenance on adding solvents.



Many different setups run very well on 50/50 methanol/water. Heet in the yellow (not the red) bottles is a good source of methanol in the US.

[Forum Admin]

128 oz. to a gallon.

448 oz. in your tank.

12/448 ~ 2.68% Methanol to 97.32% water.

Heet is not an efficient way to make a mix, it is just the only source I know that is highly concentrated in methanol and offered as an example. If someone has another readily accessible way to get methanol (in the US, I know ethanol and methanol is easier to get in other regions) that would be helpful.

[Brad]

blkevo8, Your choose of tank I question. Methonal is very corrosive to aluminum a plastic tank would be best. The aluminum oxidation will clog the filter and cause failure of the pump.

[blkevo8]

arrg really aluminum tank with a 50/50 mix is a bad idea??? even if I mix some Klotz with the methanol??

[JScoob]

I was looking at an old post on nabisco quoting Richard Lamb at ERL that isopropyl alcohol with the aquamist pump is ok for up to 25% alcohol to water. Is this true?

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3906506&highlight=aquamist+AND+rubbing+AND+alcoh ol#post3906506

[Forum Admin]

That is indeed the information provided. I am not sure what else is mixed in with your average isopropyl from a store though. Another thing that has been found by people who have used both of them seperately but in the same quantities on more tolerant systems is that methanol works better. I can not think of anyone who actually use isopropyl regularly.

[JScoob]

I'd probably use methanol if I could get it cheaper locally somewhere - I just don't know where. I don't really want to pay $45 for a 5 gallon via mail order.

As long as isopropyl burns better than water :wink: Plus it seems its much safer to handle than methanol.

[hotrod]

You should be able to buy either methanol or fuel grade ethanol at local race fuel suppliers. Also many RC cars and model aircraft use methanol fuels, and you should be able to source fuel alcohol from them.

Where I live both Methanol and Ethanol fuel alcohols are available in bulk or by the gallon at about $2.00 /gal.

Larry

[TurboGTi]

Ok this may sound strange or maybe someone has asked this already but.....is it possible to use White RUM as a mixture when injecting water with the aquamist system? :oops:

please don't laugh either yes or no ..! with an explaination! :lol:

[hotrod]

Not a good idea. White rum or any of the pure spirits are ethanol alcohol at 180 proof, that means they are 90% alcohol and 10% water.

If you have an aquamist, ethanol is not acceptable. If you have an ethanol safe system you built, it would work, but unless you work for a bootlegger it would not be cost effective. You can get pure fuel grade alcohols for much less money. I have no idea what trace contaminates are included in spirits like Vodka, or white rum, but I would only consider it as an "emergency" measure.

No officer, I'm not drinking, I put this in the engine ---

Yeah sure buddy, turn around and put your hands behind your back !
:shock:


Larry

[TurboGTi]

Hotrod.. thanks for your comments and your humour :)
i always wondered why i don't see people talking about using white rum or such....but tey do tlak about it, ijust didn't know of the ethonol base!

well i'll just stick to my water and rubbing alcohol mix!

[blown408]

I am puting the 2d system on my car but I am a little confused about what I can add to the water and at what percent foe both knock suppretion and to pull some fuel out?Can someone please help me!

[JScoob]

You should be able to buy either methanol or fuel grade ethanol at local race fuel suppliers. Also many RC cars and model aircraft use methanol fuels, and you should be able to source fuel alcohol from them.

Where I live both Methanol and Ethanol fuel alcohols are available in bulk or by the gallon at about $2.00 /gal.

Larry

What about the nitromethane additives that are found in some RC fuels? Is nitromethane ok to inject?

[MidEngine4Life]

Does Ispropyl Alcohol (Rubbing Alch) also effectively act as a 'fuel' to richen up your AFRs like methanol does?

Methanol's downright impossible to find here in Hawaii. Even every windshield washer fluid (not the most ideal method) sold here is some sort of 'summer formula' that contains no methanol. :roll: ......

[hotrod]

Yes Isopropyl acohol will work fine as a fuel. However note that it has significantly less ability to absorb heat during vaporization, and the proper fuel air, water injection amounts will be different with isopropyl acohol than on methanol or ethanol. In WWII Pratt and Whittney engine tests they discovered that the calibration for the ADI system would not work properly with isopropyl but was acceptable with both methanol and ethanol. This was traced to the lower limit of flamability limits of the respective alcohols. At the typical 50/50 mix used during the war, the isopropyl alcohol was acting more like a fuel (engine running rich) than it was a fuel air coolant.

UPDATED 5/13/04 old numbers had errors

The major differences in the alcohols has to do with their contained oxygen and the latent heats of evaporation.

Methanol -- Oxygen content 49.9% by wt, latent heat of vaporization 1099.45 KJ/Kg . K = 262.6 BTU/lb . F
Ethanol ----- Oxygen content 34.7% by wt, latent heat of vaporization 854.62 KJ/kg . K = 204.1 BTU/lb . F

Isopropyl --C3H8O--- Oxygen content 26.66% by wt, latent heat of vaporization 666.7 KJ/kg . K = 159.24 BTU/lb . F


Larry

[MidEngine4Life]

Great info, thanks Larry! :)