HFS-3 not spraying ::mystery solved::

[Arthurwiljami]

Car is Audi S4 2.7BiT and I?ve just installed HFS-3 system and I?m having problems with HFS-3, its not spraying. After install the system was tested by linking up ? INJ? and ?SYS?
on the controller and it was spraying. When I start the car the red "s" and w-injection lights are on in the gauge so it should be ready to spray but under acceleration I don?t see any bars lighting up to show water been sprayed.

[Richard L]

A few questions...

1. Does the green led on the controller flicker in time with RPM?
2. Is the fuel injector standard?

[Arthurwiljami]

A few questions...

1. Does the green led on the controller flicker in time with RPM?
2. Is the fuel injector standard?

1. YES, the green F-IDC led is flickering in time with rpm.
2. NO, I?m running EV14 72lbs. (so roughly double over stock).

[Richard L]

What is Is the coil resistance of the EV14, 16 ohm or 2.5 ohm. If it is a 2.5ohm injector, you need to use the green harness supplied with the system.

[Arthurwiljami]

Did the spraying test today again but the pump didn?t power up. Fisrt time we installed the system we had wrong wiring diagram for the car but that time it sprayed but had other issues HFS-3 working correctly.
This is how I did the test:

1. I disconnected the 6mm hose from FAV
2. Took the jumper from FAV (it says "inj" in the manual but its "FAV" in the controller)
3. turned on the ignition
4. Put the jumper to the SYS

Nothing happened.
Does this mean an install error or could I check something else?

This is what the contoller looked pefore I Took the jumper from "FAV"

[Richard L]

Can you tell me the serial number of the controller. The wire of the RJ connector seemed to be pulled out.

[Richard L]

Can you pm me your phone number so that I can call you and do a more detailed diagnostic work. I will be away for a week so if I can help you today, it would be good.

[Richard L]

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS3/wire orders.gif

Please check each plug for the corrtect wire orders. Correct the order meanwhile by cut and splice. Let me know your address and I will replace the harness accordingly. It is possible that one or two of the harness were mixed up from other systems. Email me [richard@aquamist.co.uk] and I will send them when I return to my office on the 9th.

[Richard L]

The correct wire colour order of the grey harness should be... from gauge side

-(red) 2011-May on version
-red
-green
-orange
-white
-yellow
-blue
-black
-Silver brown
-(brown) 2011-May on version


http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS3/grey harness-11.gif


Dispose the incorrect harness asap

[Howerton Engineering]

Did the spraying test today again but the pump didn?t power up. Fisrt time we installed the system we had wrong wiring diagram for the car but that time it sprayed but had other issues HFS-3 working correctly.
This is how I did the test:

1. I disconnected the 6mm hose from FAV
2. Took the jumper from FAV (it says "inj" in the manual but its "FAV" in the controller)
3. turned on the ignition
4. Put the jumper to the SYS

Nothing happened.
Does this mean an install error or could I check something else?

This is what the contoller looked pefore I Took the jumper from "FAV"

If you pull the jumper from FAV, you are disabling the FAV and it will not inject. You MUST use the jumper from PRK to put os SYS otherwise you are disabling parts of the system.

[Arthurwiljami]

I did spray test as said in the manual:

2. Priming and purging of the system:
a. Fill up the tank with water half way.
b. Disconnect the 6mm hose from the FAV assembly
and put the hose into a container securely.
c. Ignition switch in pre-crank position and gauge is
switched on. Uncover the controller and pull out the
?Inj? jumper (disabling the FAV) and put it to the link
marked ?SYS?. The pump should power up and
water should come out of the 6mm hose within a
few seconds, Let it run for a 10-20 seconds so that
trapped air and debris are purged.

Although my problem also is my gauge won?t light up when I turn the ignition on. It only lights up 15s after I?ve started the car. I did send email to Rickhard about this but I think he?s still out of office.

[Howerton Engineering]

If it lights up 15s after starting the car, then you have a wiring issue. The red wire on the molex connector is the main power supply, BUT the red wire of the gray connector energizes a main relay to let that power flow. So where ever you have the red wire of the gray harness tapped it is not getting power in the pre-crank position to let the system turn on.

[Arthurwiljami]

Haven?t had a chance to look at the wiring yet but if the red wire of the gray connector is tapped to wrong place can this effect to the main problem that the system is not spraying (even if its getting power when the car is running) or is it a completely a different issue?

[Howerton Engineering]

The red wire of the gray harness turns the system on. Without this power, you are likely to see the yellow water level light on and nothing else.

[Arthurwiljami]

Checked the red wires today and the thicker red wire (Molex) is connected to a place where it gets current when the ignition is turned ON.

The ECU thinner red wire was connected to a different location (to connector that goes to fuel injectors). But when I connected the thinner wire to same place as the thicker red the gauge powered up when I turned on the ignition BUT after a while the pump was activated and started spraying. The car was not running.

This thread was made by a friend who originally installed the system and had the same malfuntion.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2026

Now I?m confused is there a wiring issue or do I have some kind of harness issue as Richard suspected earlier?

edit: What voltage the thin ecu red wire should get in pre-crank position and when the car is running?

[Arthurwiljami]

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS3/wire orders.gif

Please check each plug for the corrtect wire orders. Correct the order meanwhile by cut and splice. Let me know your address and I will replace the harness accordingly. It is possible that one or two of the harness were mixed up from other systems. Email me [richard@aquamist.co.uk] and I will send them when I return to my office on the 9th.

The correct wire colour order of the grey harness should be... from gauge side

-(red) 2011-May on version
-red
-green
-orange
-white
-yellow
-blue
-black
-Silver brown
-(brown) 2011-May on version


http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS3/grey harness-11.gif


Dispose the incorrect harness asap

Richard, did you get back yet and did you get the emails I sent you?

About those two different ECU harness is the first one "V1" and the second "V2"? I was reading this forum and came across that the V1 version has blue board and "INJ" and V2 has black board and INJ is replaced by "FAV". Is this correct?

If it is my controller has V2 black board (and there is DFS jumper) but my gray ECU harness look the same as in the first picture.

[Richard L]

I am back and ready to tackle your installation.

The grey harness is the same on v1 and v2. I just happen to have an older picture available for purpose of illustration, Infact all the harnesses has the same wire orientation.

V1 ...... Blue board
v2 ...... Black board

[Richard L]

I will move on the next stage of testing tomorrow, Do you have a digital voltmeter? Meanwhile can you check all the other wires colours of the different harnesses are matching the diagram below. (no need to check the grey harness - done that already)

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS3/wire%20orders.gif

[Arthurwiljami]

OK, so ECU cable on good. I?ve checked all the wire colours and they all have the same orientation red, yellow, blue, black. I do have multimeter.

Is it a must for the thin red wire to be connected to injector (+) or does it matter if the connetion just have 12V in pre-crank position (and when the car is running of course). If I?ve understood correctly both red wires need to get 12V in pre-crank position but where ever I put the thin red the pump activates when the gauge lights up. I don?t understand what triggers the system to spray when the car is not even running. Is it possible that the injector is "short to ground" for some reason in pre-crank position.

Well either way the system will not spray when the car is running.

[Richard L]

What is Is the coil resistance of the EV14, 16 ohm or 2.5 ohm. If it is a 2.5ohm injector, you need to use the green harness supplied with the system.

[Richard L]

OK, so ECU cable on good. I?ve checked all the wire colours and they all have the same orientation red, yellow, blue, black. I do have multimeter.

Is it a must for the thin red wire to be connected to injector (+) or does it matter if the connetion just have 12V in pre-crank position (and when the car is running of course). If I?ve understood correctly both red wires need to get 12V in pre-crank position but where ever I put the thin red the pump activates when the gauge lights up. I don?t understand what triggers the system to spray when the car is not even running. Is it possible that the injector is "short to ground" for some reason in pre-crank position.

Well either way the system will not spray when the car is running.


The thin red wire should really be connected to the fuel injector (+) so that when the ECU switches off the fuel injector (+), the HFS3 might think the fuel injector is at 100% dc because i thas lost the (+) supply.

From past experience, this does not happen on the Audi ECU but for some un-explained reason, the HFS-3's green wire (grey harness) is seeing a ground signal from the fuel injector (-) terminal.

We can check this out if you can use your voltmeter to check the voltage at test pin8, relative to ground (bottom left hand corner):

Voltage at TP8
key off .............. no voltage
key #1 (accessory position) ........ no voltage
key #2 (pre-crank/run position) ....... 12V
key #3 (starter) ............. 12V

Please re-test key position #2 after ~10 seconds (before cranking) just to confirm the ECU does not remove the injector 12V. If it does, the 12V will disappear at TP8. This will cause the system and pump to trigger in error.

[Arthurwiljami]

Voltage at 8 pin:

- key off....................no voltage
- key #2 (pre-crank)... 3,5V
- key #3 (starter)....... to be tested (don?t have access to the car at the moment)
- car running...............12V

Don?t know is this relevant but when I turn the ignition to pre-crank the yellow water level light lights up but shuts down right after. After that the gauge has no power until I start the car. The yellow light lights up immediately and 15s later everything else lights up in the gauge as they should.

I just talked with my tuner and I was told that US 03-> audi 2,7tt has this same feature that the fuel injector (+) see 12V only when the car is running.

If that is the case how should I wire the harness to get the system work properly? I?ll ask from my tuner how they have wired cars like this.

If I connect the thin red wire to somewhere else where it gets 12V in pre-crank and the system start to spray is the possible cause for this that the injector (-) is grounded and the system "thinks" the injector duty is 100%? If I?ve understood correctly the injector is controlled to spray by grounding it (don?t know if I explained that correctly?).

[Arthurwiljami]

Forgot to mention that the coil resistance on 12 ohm.

[Richard L]

The injectors are the conventional type. Thanks for the update.

So far, from your information and tests. It appears the ECU momentarily switched in the injector(+) and fuel pump at the pre-cranked key position and shut off afew seconds later. This sequence pressurises the fuel line.

Once cranked and running, the ECU powers up the fuel injector (+) and fuel pump.

I guess the only way we tackle this set up without mistakenly triggering the HFS3 is by putting the thin red on the injector (+), temporarily enduring the system will not switch on until the enigne is up and running.

[Arthurwiljami]

Updates,

Finally got the car back on the road and the first snow melted away. All the wirings was correctly wired and the problem was the IDC didn?t exceed 44%. I turned the threshold from clock 12 to clock 9 and the system started spraying. I?m seeing 2-3 bars in the gauge so it still needs some adjustment. My tune is at the early stage but I wouldn?t have thought that IDC was under 44% since I?running ~24psi with 72lbs. Also the injector (+) confused a lot because it didn?t have the 12V as most car do so for future reference to other S4 2.7 owner this is how these cars differs from others.

Thanks to Richard and Howerton Engineering for great customer support.

[Richard L]

The HFS3 has a pre-amplifier for the IDC: x1(default), x1.5 and x2.5.

The modification can be done on the underside of the circuit board. Scratch out the x1 link and solder link the x1.5. This will scale your 44% to 66%. Alterntaively, you can try x2.5, giving you a final IDC value of 110%.

[Arthurwiljami]

Bringing this to back because I have still/again a flow issue. After I adjusted the threshold to start flow at lower IDC I saw 7-8 bars in in gauge. Only a short after I was seen only 5-6 bars and the yellow "water level" -light lights up when the system start spraying which indicate the fail safe been activated.?

Water level is not low so what could cause the failsafe to activate? Flow sensor, faulty FAV? What things shoud I check first?

Another question about WL and WH potentiometer: No matter where I turn these I see the red "B" lighing up when starting to get boost and on boost. When the system is adjusted correctly should the "B" light up?

[Richard L]

If the yellow led comes on whilst spraying (or not spray), it will be a failsafe activation. Nothing to do with the tank level sensor.

"B" led only comes on after the system is triggered. It will turn off if the flow goes outside the flow window. You can "assume all is well" when the "B" led is lit through out the spraying period.

If you see 7-8 bar at the gauge, it will trigger the failslafe because it has exceeded the upper limit of the flow window. (WL). Another reason for the excessive indication on the gauge is probably due to part of the hose is empty between the valve and jet.

During the first 1/10th second or so seconds of spray, air inside the hose will be displaced by the water until the water reaches the jet. Once this is purging sequence is completed, the gauge reading will be lower (5-6 bars instead of 7-8 bars).

You can avoid the over-shoot of WH (upper limit) and avoid triggering the failsafe (yellow led) by the one of following action:

1. Increase the failsafe delay on the controller (clockwise)
2. Shorten the hose length between the FAV and jet
3. Create a downward hose loop between the FAV and jst so that gravity will help keeping the water inside the hose.

[Arthurwiljami]

What I ment to say about flow bars I don't see 7-8 bars at any stage. I thought the flow was reduced so it only show 5-6 bars for some reason and therefore failsafe is activated?? But I'll check this out when the weather allow to me to test this on the road (snowy roads).

If you see 7-8 bar at the gauge, it will trigger the failslafe because it has exceeded the upper limit of the flow window. (WL).

So do I need to adjust SC to counterclockwise a little so it doesn't go up to 7-8 bars?

1. Increase the failsafe delay on the controller (clockwise)
2. Shorten the hose length between the FAV and jet
3. Create a downward hose loop between the FAV and jst so that gravity will help keeping the water inside the hose.

1. I'll increase delay if needed.
2. hoses are almost as short as they can be.
3. Will try to make the loop. The jets are now lower than FAV.

[Richard L]

If the 7-8 bar is momentry, then extending the failsafe delay is more appropriate

Provided you have already calibrated the WL and WH. What is the position of WL and WH? (face of a clock).

Just a matter of interest, have to set the WL and WH according to the procedure in the user user manual?

[Arthurwiljami]

I remembered the flow bar had 10 bars and not 8 so I'd say it must've been 6-7 bars what it showed before the flow was reduced and failsafe activated.

I red the manual but as english isn't my native language I don't quite understand how do I "calibrate" the WL and WH. It says in the manual "once SC is calibrated" I can set the WL and WH but I have tried those in different positions and it doesn't seem to make any difference?? Does WL mean too little water is flowing and WH mean too much water is flowing and the "B" lit up ?

Richard can you simplify to me how do I adjust the WL and WH? At the moment the WL is between 11-12 o'clock and WH is 1 o'clock. SC is adjusted to 2 o'clock if it matters. I have dual nozzle 0.9mm and 1.0mm.

I think I should take a video to show how the gauge behave because it's difficult for me to explain it in words.

[Richard L]

I will list our the steps below:

1. At full power, adjust the SC until the gauge read 5-6 bars.
2. Set WL 5 clicks from fully counterclockwise onward.
3. Set WH 5 cliock form fully clockwise.

Now the failsafe window is quite wide.

4. Run the car at WOT again, make sure the "B" led stays on and does not trip the yellow "failsafe" led.
5. Slowly advancing the WL clockwise until it trips the yellow led, back off two click and leave it alone.
6. At wot, slowly adjust the WH counterclockwise until it trips the yellow led. 2-clicks clockwise and leave it alone.

7. You have now successfully set up the failsafe.
8. Remind me, is you car Super or Turbo charged?

[Arthurwiljami]

Got to do a little research today but no progress solving the failsafe issue. Here's a short clip (I know the cameraman suck!) where you can see that when it starts spraying the failsafe activates right after. I turned the WL fully counterclockwise and WH fully clockwise and the "B" still light up.??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP2qBCX5dNc&feature=youtu.be

At WOT (don't have a good clip to post) run I only had 2-3 bars and after the pull it peaked 4 bars so its a lot less what it was before (SC is at klock 1 and was ~2 before but shouldn't effect that much if it was 6-7 bars before).

I did a system test by pulling a 4mm hose off after FAV and it sprayed very well. It took only a few seconds to spray roughly 100ml.

So the question is:
1. Why the failsafe activates so early
2. why I only see 2-3 bars when the system test sprayed good.

1. I have Check engine light ON in the instrument cluster but I remember reading somewhere it shouldn't effect unless the system was installed to take it into account?? (when writing this post I checked and if the jumper is in DR0 = failsafe is activated if CEL on ON), DR1 = no failsafe if CEL is ON I have the jumper in DR0.
2. I could check is there blockage in the nozzle

Need to clear the CEL light and go for a new test run.

edit: 8. Car is turbocharged.
edit 2:When flow tested the system with the "SYS" jumper the gauge showed all 8 bars

[Arthurwiljami]

Checked today the nozzles and both had good spray pattern so no problems there. On the road I got more bars on the gauge. Not sure why I only got 2-3 bars yesterday but maybe I just didn't pull high rpm enough and SC was set lower??? As you can see on the clip it peaks at 7 bars but the bars come with a little delay (and are a little inconsistent during the pull) and not sure is it supposed to do so as what I've seen on a few videos on youtube and the bars comes immediately as the system activates.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIvApnYWXUw

On the video it looks that the w.injection led shuts down after a few seconds

Cleared the CEL light but it didn't fix the failsafe issue. The "B" led is still on even when the WL and WH is set to min and max.

Any thoughts how the system is working..? What is the next step to solve the failsafe issue?

[Richard L]

I just remembered... siily me.

I have someone with any aquamist system in Canada, without exception, every winter, the system reads low.

Here is the link, this may be the same thing your are experiencing:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=752282&highlight=viscosity&page=67

just a snippet across a few posts. The discussion is about ice forming at the tip of the nozzle during spray.

[Arthurwiljami]

The nasioc forum is under maintenance at the moment but I'll look at it when it opens.

But don't think I have issues with nozzles. I've had the car in warm garage and I'm using 50% W/M so shouldn't form ice at the tip of the nozzle during spray as the parts of the system isn't getting that cold.

Can you tell buy looking at the video how the system is working or how it should work differently?

[Richard L]

I have just watch the video, it is difficult to see when the two leds coming on. By the way, sounds like a great deal of power on tap.

Can you confirm both led is yellow. If this is the case, you have the latest v11 gauge where the function of the top led has changed to "failsafe" activation instead of staying on full time when the system is turned on.

[Arthurwiljami]

I have just watch the video, it is difficult to see when the two leds coming on. By the way, sounds like a great deal of power on tap.

Thanks, I'm running just a base map with ~22psi. Can't wait to run 30psi ;)

1. The yellow w.injection led light up first (as an indication system activation?)
2. yellow water level led light up right after.
3. w. injection led goes out after a few seconds during pull.
4. A few seconds after pull the water level led goes out.

Can you confirm both led is yellow. If this is the case, you have the latest v11 gauge where the function of the top led has changed to "failsafe" activation instead of staying on full time when the system is turned on.
So yes both leds are yellow. The water level led looks green'ish' when its not on.
It seem I have the latest v11 gauge so what are the functions for the w.injection and water level led. Do you have updated manual for v11 version?

edit:
I've used the HFS3v1w1 manual but I just found 2 newer version and the HFS3v2.13w (http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS3/HFS3v2.13w.pdf) is for v11. Is that the correct for me?

[Richard L]

My replies in Blue...

Thanks, I'm running just a base map with ~22psi. Can't wait to run 30psi ;)

1. The yellow w.injection led light up first (as an indication system activation?)
No, it is an indication of the failsafe activation

2. yellow water level led light up right after.
When both yellow leds light up, it is a failsafe activatiuon and not tank level low. Expect a slight delay between them coming on.

3. w. injection led goes out after a few seconds during pull.
This shows the failsafe is triggered by the WL adjustment too high or the failsafe delay is not long enough (clockwise on "FS-DL" trimmer in controller). You might also like to up the trigger point a bit (Threshold trimmer)

4. A few seconds after pull the water level led goes out.
Once fasialfe is triggered, there is a reset period of ~3 seconds

So yes both leds are yellow. The water level led looks green'ish' when its not on.
The green shade is due to the backlit led intruding into the yellow led. The v12 gauge has a vinyl sleeve covering the entre length of the led to avoid light contamination.

It seem I have the latest v11 gauge so what are the functions for the w.injection and water level led. Do you have updated manual for v11 version?
You can doneload a more up to date version from our site, it appears that you have already done so. Basically, the updated version is what I just posted above.
edit:
I've used the HFS3v1w1 manual but I just found 2 newer version and the HFS3v2.13w (http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS3/HFS3v2.13w.pdf) is for v11. Is that the correct for me?
You will find the new gauge version mentioned on the "content" page in the user manual. Yes, that manual is good for you.

[Arthurwiljami]

Finally got the car running with a little wastegate duty cycle and the roads are not icy anymore. Only thing I've adjusted since last time is I turned the threshold from klock 9 to 10 so it would trigger the spray later AND IT WORKS :D WL/WH is still in end positions but the main thing is the system is working.

I'm not sure what was the trigger that activated the failsafe before. Basically it activated before it even got to start spraying so I quess it was just spraying too early even the IDC wasn't that low.??

I want to thank you Richard for all the support you've given. The whole installation/adjustment has been full of mysteries and things have worked the way they shouldn't or just differently compared to other Audi S4's and this made it more than challenging.

Hopefully this thread isn't going to be re-reopened ;)

Thanks

[Richard L]

Thanks for the update.

I am glad it all worked out. Most of the time is getting to know the system. If in doublt, always revert back to factory default by outting all trimmers to 12 o'clock and jumper link to the dotted slot.

This also helps me to diagnose the system knowing the settings are factory standard.

Always leave the failsafe until everything is set up otherwise it can be very confusing. You can now narrow up the WL and WH.

When did the snow and ice disappear? we have had a near-summer temperatures a week ago or two ago. Now is back to the normal cold and wet.

[Arthurwiljami]

OK lets not jumping just yet. Went today to take some logs and it was hitting the failsafe...again. It starts spraying ~3600rpm (first flow bar lits) where I see ~20psi and looking from the logs the failsafe activates @4000rpm and dorps duty cycles to 0%.

The weird part is if I start 3rd gear pull from ~2600rpm or below the failsafe comes on but if I start the pull from 3000rpm or higger it works great all the way up to redline. I'm going to turn the threshold again from 10 to 11 klock and see what happens but why the system is acting like this. is it still activating too soon if looking at the boost/rpm when it start spraying.

Still have snow here but the bigger highwas have been clear maybe a month although a week ago we had 10cm of snow in one day. I have taken slowly with the car because the winter stud tires isn't liking the 0.55G accelerations and 150kmh speeds :)

[Arthurwiljami]

Updates: Turned the threshold from 10-11 o'clock and now its not hitting failsafe when doing low rpm pulls.

[Richard L]

This threhold is about 30% IDC, at which the system starts to spray. This is quite a common starting point. A lower, you will be spraying below medium load.

I can help you to lowest the WL setting further, but I donlt thing it is necessary.

[sniper]

This threhold is about 30% IDC, at which the system starts to spray. This is quite a common starting point. A lower, you will be spraying below medium load.

I can help you to lowest the WL setting further, but I donlt thing it is necessary.

How can implement it?

[Richard L]

Post the information below:

THRES:
GAIN:
WL:
SC:
WH:
Jet size:

[sniper]

Hello Richard

THRES: 10.00
GAIN: 12.00 default
FS-DL: 12.00 default
WL: 08.00 off
SC: 14.00
WH: 17.00 off
Jet size: 0.4/0.6
Jumper link: default
HFS-4 flow sensor map: solder link default

additions
honda k24a turbo
fuel injectors :FIC Bosch 1000сс 12om
version: HFS4-V3.1

test
IDC pre-amplifier gain:
x1.0 : not work/failsafe activated/THRES: 12.00/ "B"flash
x1.5 : not work/failsafe activated/THRES: 12.00/ "B"flash
x2.5 : work/failsafe activated/ Bargraph 7bar/THRES: 12.00/ "B"lights
x2.75: work/Bargraph 7bar/THRES: 12.00/ "B"lights
x2.75: not work/failsafe activated/THRES: 10.00/ "B"flash

[Richard L]

Thanks for the concise infos. They all look good.

Please solder link 1 & 2 of the flow sensor map. Your totoal flow is quite low. It is located on the underside of the circuit board.

[sniper]

command accepted

[sniper]

Richard, I have 2 news for you: good and bad.

I have ruined the path of the first channel. Frankly speaking I don’t even understand how it happened. The path just got unglued from the board and remained on the copper bit. I repaired the path using the wire and I now understand why there are flow jumpers on the board.

test
IDC pre-amplifier gain:
x1.0 : not work/nothing is happening
x1.5 : not work/failsafe activated/THRES: 12.00/ "B"flash
x2.5 : work/Bargraph 7bar/THRES: 11.00/ "B"lights
x2.75: work/Bargraph 7bar/THRES: 10.00/ "B"lights
x2.75: not work/failsafe activated/THRES: 09.00/ "B"flash

final setting
THRES: 11.00
GAIN: 12.00 default
FS-DL: 12.00 default
WL: 10.00
SC: 13.00
WH: 14.00
Jet size: 0.4/0.6
Jumper link: default
HFS-4 flow sensor map: solder link 1-2
IDC pre-amplifier gain: x2.5

[Richard L]

Looks like it is working now?

[sniper]

work!!!
I made a few data log

THRES: 11.00
AN6 pink= 0V-0% 5V-100% (Flow sensor signal: 0.5 to 4.5V)

http://sasacom.users.photofile.ru/photo/sasacom/115928581/xlarge/214324232.gif

THRES: 10.00

http://sasacom.users.photofile.ru/photo/sasacom/115928581/xlarge/214324233.gif

failsafe activated
BKSW green= boost on/off
http://sasacom.users.photofile.ru/photo/sasacom/115928581/xlarge/214324264.gif

[sniper]

I add some upgrades

http://sasacom.users.photofile.ru/photo/sasacom/200665371/xlarge/214385983.jpg

http://sasacom.users.photofile.ru/photo/sasacom/200665371/xlarge/214385984.jpg

http://sasacom.users.photofile.ru/photo/sasacom/200665371/xlarge/214385985.jpg

http://sasacom.users.photofile.ru/photo/sasacom/200665371/xlarge/214385986.jpg

[Richard L]

Amazing soldering work. You now have all the options.

I notice an over shoot on the flow signal. If you can shorten the line between FAV and jet, you can minimise this effect.


What jets are you running?

[sniper]

final setting
THRES: 11.00
GAIN: 12.00 default
FS-DL: 12.00 default
WL: 10.00
SC: 13.00
WH: 14.00

Jet size: 0.4/0.6
0.9mm restrictor ................... 0 - 1080cc/min

Jumper link: default
HFS-4 flow sensor map: solder link 1-2
IDC pre-amplifier gain: x2.5

[Richard L]

Is this system setting working well for you. If you would like a greater linearity you can request a "lower" flow valve or go for a smaller restrictor.

[sniper]

Richard
All jet are tied to the parameters detonation
If I have a detonation, my changes are as follows:
jet 0.6 / 0.6 (0.8)
0.9mm restrictor delete

Currently
Is this system (Jet size: 0.4/0.6) working good

[Arthurwiljami]

Finally got the car running with a little wastegate duty cycle and the roads are not icy anymore. Only thing I've adjusted since last time is I turned the threshold from klock 9 to 10 so it would trigger the spray later AND IT WORKS :D WL/WH is still in end positions but the main thing is the system is working.

I'm not sure what was the trigger that activated the failsafe before. Basically it activated before it even got to start spraying so I quess it was just spraying too early even the IDC wasn't that low.??

I want to thank you Richard for all the support you've given. The whole installation/adjustment has been full of mysteries and things have worked the way they shouldn't or just differently compared to other Audi S4's and this made it more than challenging.

Hopefully this thread isn't going to be re-reopened ;)

Thanks
Thread bump from the grave.

I'm having same failsafe issue again after changing injectors 840cc to 1080cc. Adjusted threshold from 12 a clock to 10 since IDC dropped but no effect. Still don't see leds in the paragraph display.
How/what do I need to adjust to get this to spray again?

[Richard L]

What is your maximum duty cycle on the new injectors?

You may need to use x1.5 instead of the x1 is you are not using full duty cycle.

[Arthurwiljami]

Need to check the max duty but I believe it is below 60% at this point it tuning. What do you mean x1 to 1.5x? I remember reading something about scaling in some other thread but can't find it in the manual.

In the meantime;
I'll be using pump fuel and E85 so my duty will be varying a lot depending which tune I'm running so was thinking of changing to MAP sensor control. I have the blue wire from the gray harness connected to oem MAP signal but my circuit board looks like this MPS/IDC?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9jy271vhgkd766m/DSC_0447.JPG?dl=0

[Richard L]

You cannot change the fuel injector size without affecting the aquamist's setting

Yes. x1.5 and reset the failsafe window.

[Arthurwiljami]

What about my question of switching to MPS from IDC? Can you see the picture I linked?

[Richard L]

Change the IDC to MPS will only change the trigger point, the system, still follow iDC. Select x1.5 on power fuel and x1 on E85.

[Arthurwiljami]

So there really isn't a way to run WI with both fuels unless I'll do something like sniper did above? And I'd still need to find correct threshold point for each fuel which means opening/adjusting thres point every time fuel changes.

[Richard L]

You need to change the iDC gain not threshold. The system prefers to work with full idc swing rather just 60% max.

[Arthurwiljami]

My HFS-3 is v2 SN:10460 does this have the pre:amp option because it is not in the manual until v3.0?

And just to confirm there is no option for MAP control only?

[Richard L]

Your controller is the first generation and does not have this option, it is approx. 5 years old. Time to get a newer controller?

[Arthurwiljami]

I did spray test using "INJ" and "SYS" on the controller. Both nozzles sprayed fine but none of the leds didn't lit up in the bargraph? Shouldn't it lit all 8? Adjusting "FC" to max didn't make any difference.

Edit:
Disabled the failsafe with "DFS" and went to test drive. Didn't see any flow and the "w.injection" indicator led did not lit up looks like the system does not activate at any point.

Is this all because of too big injectors or is there some other issues going on with the system?
Gain turned to almost full clockwise.

[Richard L]

Unfortunate this is the case. running over large injectors will have this effect. The duty cycle is too low for the first generation of H3 system.

You should consider getting a newer HFS3 controller. The latest (V3.1) allows you to scale up the incoming IDC signal in six steps.

Post a picture of the under side of the circuit board you might be lucky and have a idc re-scaler within.

[Arthurwiljami]

OK, I'll need to consider the newest version. Assume the wiring harness is the same.

Looked from the manual about the SSG option. If I understand correctly it works on/off principle and ignores IDC. Threshold only sets the trigger point and then its full flow?

[Richard L]

Yes, the SSG is "all on or all off", not progressive.

Wiring is the same. Post a picture first, might saves you some money

[Arthurwiljami]

Taped one of the nozzles to the hood and tested the SSG. It started spraying around 3500rpm but still didn't see any leds in the bargraph?
And failsafe activated again. Why when the system does not read IDC?

What component gives the bargraph the signal how much water is flowing because I can't get any of the 8 leds to li up, not even when doing a flow test?!?

[Richard L]

If there are debris trapped in the flow sensor, it will stop the turbine spinning and will not show flow on the gauge. Try disassembling it and give it a clean. (carefully)