View Full Version : FCM Problem ::FIXED::
fplucid
29-04-2012, 09:49 PM
Greetings from Russia.
Trying to install HFS-6 on turbo s2000. After finishing all the wiring and trying to start, I've noticed that there is no connection to red cable coming from FCM (under hood). Neither green or yellow lights are lit. Other connections are fine, only this red one has problem.
One thing I've noticed plugging red cable out and in - "S" light on gauge is lit only with cable inserted, also just in a moment of inserting module is making a "click" sound (similar to sound made by relay). Ground to FCM is good.
I suppose that something is working, something is not. When I tryed to run 100% inj test all indication on main board was correct, but flow didn't run, no sound from pump as well (pump fuse and relay are ok). Could be this the reason of FCM not working properly?
Basically, what is possible reason for this and how problem can be resolved? Any suggestions?
Looking through topics here I found out that red RJ connector sometimes has some problems - I will check it out tomorrow.
Thanks for your time and sorry for my english.
Richard L
29-04-2012, 11:08 PM
Firest thing to check is the RJ45 connector. It could be damaged from threding through tight opening beytwen firewall/cabin.
Is the HFS-6 new? It has been discontinued over two years ago.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gallery/HFS6/conn1.jpg
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gallery/HFS6/conn2.jpg
fplucid
30-04-2012, 10:43 PM
Hi, Richard.
HFS-6 is new, everything is just from the box, everything was sealed. Just purchased it from ebay. Can send you details and seller contact info of the seller if necessary.
Checked the connector - it is fine. Pushed the pins additionaly - didn't help. Same thing.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5vqmSSf9lp4/T58HA3e8C-I/AAAAAAAABLs/uPeGDyO7izA/s640/2012-04-30%252021.04.46.jpg
Ground (dunno what else to check with the module):
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JKWiGZ-ZV6s/T58Bu0qbVrI/AAAAAAAABLQ/qHix-JjvEyk/s640/2012-04-30%252019.16.21.jpg
Module itself:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pKP9Ql5PBuI/T58E5bmCKXI/AAAAAAAABLc/RSD_tJzlytU/s512/2012-04-30%252019.16.04.jpg
(Used black water line from previously installed AEM unit)
box with serial on it:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-o70bXZRnKR4/T58HAr9croI/AAAAAAAABL8/phXYFPcaDAc/s640/2012-04-30%252020.12.50.jpg
Here is the video. Probably this will help to understand the situation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jrMO677InI
Notice the "S" lamp being lit and not while plugging and unplugging the connector. Also, as I've said, there is some relay-like "click" on FCM.
I thought that maybe lamp on the socket is not working (what else to thing about? :)) - but during test run on full boost there was no flow.
I've also made a video with 100% flow simulation, but picture is similar. All the lights on controller are lit, but no flow.
Please, any suggestions, is it FCM or main unit itself? Where to dig? Now I'm feeling quite disappointed after spending almost 1k usd and two days for installation and having not working unit after all, instead of AEM which was working fine...
Richard L
30-04-2012, 11:11 PM
On the HFS6. there is a manual test jumper. Can you bridge it tell me if the system sprays.
fplucid
30-04-2012, 11:33 PM
Yes, here you are (tst jumper is bridged): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtiFD43JCuA
Water line witg injector went directly to cabin, so I can tell that there was NO flow.
As for pump - wiring is 100% fine, tank and water lines are filled with water (after previously installed unit), pump relay and fuse are ok. Red wire goes directly to battery.
Richard L
01-05-2012, 12:27 AM
Can you undo the 6mm line to the FCM and manually active the system. Tell me if there are ample water coming out of the 6mm hose.
fplucid
01-05-2012, 10:20 PM
No, not coming. Pump is also keeping silent. I suppose that probably punp won't work not "seeng" FCM (just guess).
Anything else to check? :)
Richard L
01-05-2012, 10:55 PM
On the video, the S led is blinking, Is it right?
fplucid
02-05-2012, 07:16 AM
Sensor light is not blinking actually. I just tried to show that it is lit when you plug in red connector, but it disappears when you take it out. So there is some connection. Just plugged it in and out several times.
Richard L
02-05-2012, 10:53 AM
Are ypu good at soldering? It is possible to by-pass the PWM drive inside the FCM to simplify the diagnostic work.
fplucid
02-05-2012, 06:02 PM
Yes, let's try, I don't mind. Please send instructions.
Richard L
02-05-2012, 09:48 PM
open up the FCM...
1. Pick out the brown wire from the 8-core cable
2. Cut it as closely as possible from the circuit board.
3. Cut the "non-red" wire off the solenoid valve pin. Tape it up.
4. Solder the brown wire to the same pin.
5. Now the valve is driven directly from the controller.
fplucid
04-06-2012, 09:36 AM
Hi, Richard.
Sorry, had a minute to check everything only yesterday.
If I understood correctly, I had just to connect brown wire with black one which goes to solenoid. Is this correct?
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UDIRj_9mkbc/T8xzJnOICXI/AAAAAAAABQY/RBZVK9pWXhM/s640/2012-06-03%252017.16.21.jpg
Didn't help. Same situation. Green led on red wire is not active, 100% flow simulation is not working.
I didn't notice any visible damages/burnt parts inside FCM - everything looks good. Probably solenoid itself is broken?
What else to check?
Richard L
04-06-2012, 12:57 PM
The soldering is good.
Next we will check the system operations:
1. Unplug the 6mm hose from the FCM. "TST" jumper if theer are pressurised water coming put of the hose. If yes continue to step 2.
2. Re-instate the 6mm hose. Unplug the 4mm hose from the FCM (remove restrictor if there is any). "TST" jumper and see if there are any water coming out of the FCM. If yes, let me know if the gauge shows reading.
I await your results...
fplucid
04-06-2012, 07:44 PM
Stuck on step 1. There is water in 6mm water line, but it is not coming out. Think it is left after old kit. Pump in trunk is keeping silent... :(
One more thing I've noticed: green led on red cable is lit one time in ~30-40 tries (plugging/unplugging), but even when it is lit water is not coming. When I take out the ignition key and put it again, led is not lit again.
Richard L
04-06-2012, 08:08 PM
Ok, check the relay in the trunk:
1) take a look at the thin red and blue wire underneath the relay, see if they are connected firmly into the relay base termninals. Those two wires should have 12V across it under "TST" condition.
2) If the wires are OK. check if there is 12V across the pump terminals.
Leave the red cable alone for the time being. Your problem is is thre truck area
fplucid
18-06-2012, 08:26 AM
- wiring, ground to trunk is fine (actually it is hard to do something wrong there :))
- pump is ok and working (directly put 12V on it, disconnected FCM and water was comming out from thick water line). If I connect thick line to FCM (with FCM "connected" to main module and "S" light lit) and put 12V on pump, no water is comming out from thin water line ("out" of FCM).
- Relay looks fine (to me :))
- BUT under "TST" mode NO sygnal is comming to red/blue thin cables - this means that main module doesn't give proper signal.
Richard L
18-06-2012, 08:34 AM
Can you remind me if this problem occurred recently or it is a new installation.
fplucid
18-06-2012, 11:38 AM
HFS-6 is new, everything is just from the box, everything was sealed. Just purchased it from ebay. Can send you details and seller contact info of the seller if necessary.
Can't make it work for almost 2 month now...
Richard L
18-06-2012, 03:39 PM
You took a long time between posts
Richard L
18-06-2012, 03:42 PM
1) Can you check the wiring order of the blue harness. Red is the first one (nearest to the gauge harness).
2) Can you check the voltage of the thin red wire under the pump relay. It should read 12V regardless if the TST is used.
fplucid
20-06-2012, 09:30 AM
Harness is ok - order is same as for other cables.
As for voltage - thick red, thin red and blue have positive voltage always (in tst mode and in normal) - can't tell what voltage is there exactly, will test with tester today. But, if I give 12V to red and blue cables directly - there is no response. Pump is not working, relay is keeping silent. What can this be? Relay faulty maybe?
One good thing I found out yesterday. With following pins shortened at the same time: "IDC", "PRK", "TST", "INJ" and shortening thick black and red cables on relay water is coming out from thin hose (OUT of FCM). If I shorten "IDC", "PRK", "TST" and black and red cables water is comming only through thick hose, but not through FCM (closed) - is it normal.
Richard L
20-06-2012, 10:30 AM
It is good to know both reds have 12V.
The thin blue should be grounded when test jumper is set to TST, provided you n-meet the following conditions:
1) system is powered up
2) gauge button is depressed
3) jumper link is set to IDC
4) jumper link is on TST
The TST is simulating 100% DC, not 100% MPS.
fplucid
20-06-2012, 03:13 PM
Finally, I think I figured out what the problem is. The blue wire. It should be grounded for water ingection to start. Currently I see some po wsitive sygnal on it, but if I shorten it to ground everything is working. What can be a reason for this and how to "ground it" when necessary?
Richard L
20-06-2012, 08:28 PM
The blue wire goes to ground when the system triggers. No before.
Please check the compartment of the blue wire of the RJ connector is not damaged or slightly bent.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gallery/HFS6/conn1.jpg
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gallery/HFS6/conn2.jpg
fplucid
20-06-2012, 10:56 PM
No. already checked. Even pressed all the pins way down. Checked with the tester female pins on the controller itself - it is always +12, under normal mode and under "TST"
As for wires - red is the first one from the right, blue is the 6th - is this correct?
Richard L
21-06-2012, 12:28 AM
Yes correct.
Anyway, Make sure the jumper is on IDC. The HFS-6 can only be manually triggered on the IDC mode.
fplucid
21-06-2012, 03:11 PM
I described situation with jumpers on IDC & TST only. Optionally jumper can be on JMP for FCM to open (but this doesn't matter anyway).
So what to do with blue cable? Why ground is not coming on it when necessary?
Richard L
21-06-2012, 08:31 PM
I don't know why the blue wire is not grounding when triggered.
Question, when you do the TST test, does the ">95%" led come on at the controller?
Do you have a digital multimeter?
fplucid
22-06-2012, 11:04 AM
Yes, all 3 leds are lit as they should. I will try to replace rj45 connectors... don't know whether it will help or not...
Richard L
22-06-2012, 11:49 AM
One thing to check is if the blue wire has continuity, here is how this can be done:
System on stand-by :
1. Check there is a 12V is present at the thin blue wire on the underside of the relay socket.
2. Check the RJ socket on the controller circuit board if the soldered pin has the 12V there.
3. I believe it is pin #6 (from gauge side) Anyway, do it visually as it is in blue.
Let me know the result.
Here is a diagram will help you with voltage measuring (relative to chassis ground).
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS6/pump driver.gif
fplucid
25-06-2012, 10:40 AM
Thanks for the info. Will check today.
I've tried to re-make RJ45 connectors but this didn't help - same thing. Female connectors (sockets on board) are not good (they were not good from the beginning). When I move the conectors (any) in socket I'm loosing connection ,leds are dimming. After some time of playing with this I've managed to get green led on red connector. BUT under "TST" mode I got folloving leds lit: green - red, yellow, blue; orange - red, green (user). But as I understood, orange led should be lit for yellow connector (to ecu) as well? But not for blue - it is water level indication, right?
Maybe soldering wires directly to the board will help - probably I will try this as a last chance.
Anyway, system is behaving really strangely...
One more thing - connectors for gauge are not colour matched (I mean they are not like stated out in instruction: red ... brown), but gauge itself seems working fine. Cable has simple wirng, not direct, but opposite, something like red is the 1st one on the one end and 8th on the other. Is this correct?
Also I found a thin soldered wire connecting two transistors (outside a circuit) - should it be there? I can make a photo to make it clear what I'm talkig about.
Richard L
25-06-2012, 07:42 PM
Things are going to get too complicated if you are going to do ten things all at once. I am not going to work with you this way. It will not get far and will waste both of our time.
First of all, every HFS-6 controller is tested individually before shipping. If you bought the system are buying second hand, this is no guarantee that it has not been handled by the previous owner. I only have your word on it. The HFS-6 was discontinued two years ago.
You should not have try change the RJ45 connect without letting me first, there are a few things i need to discuss with you before hand. You have now making things a lot difficult for me to diagnose as you have introduced more variable as your effort did not yield any positive results.
You know the system is way passed the 12-months warranty. I will help you if you don't do anymore DIY repairs.
Can we just concentrate on the blue harness and the pump relay ONLY?
fplucid
26-06-2012, 11:06 AM
Richard, I repeat again that this kit was bought in sealed box, means new, from ebay. When I bought it I had no idea that it is discontinued or I can purchase it directly from manufacturer.
This kit replaced my AEM kit which was working ok, but I was recommended to change it and try aquamist. I've spend over 1k$ for purchasing, handling and shipping hfs-6 and the only thing I want is to get it work. I'm not asking for repair/exchange, because I understand this is my mistake. I can't return it to seller, because already more than 2 month passed when I'm trying to make it work.
I've stated out that board has several problems, but you're reading between the lines. I'm not trying to do multiple thigs at same time, I think all of them are connected
1) there is NO ground coming to blue cable. Never. Always +12V
2) Orange led on yellow connector don't lit under TST mode (but it should according to the manual). It is only blinking accordingly to rpm, when engine is running.
3) gauge connector wire layout doesn't correspond to the one stated out in manual. Absolutely different
4) RJ45 female sockets on main board are crap. They are loosing connection all the time if you move connector a bit (same thing with oem & re-made connectors). I can't figure out which one is causing problem. Don't warry for the RJ45 connectors itself. I think I've made many more that thousands of these during my life.
5) what does this strange wire doing on PCB? should it be there? Why do such things have place on high-quality PCB?
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MsXYqqT9Kr0/T-mHVJZDdrI/AAAAAAAABRw/zwol70Dgk8w/s640/2012-06-26%252013.44.45.jpg
Richard, sorry, I really don't want to argue, but I've spend huge bunch of time with this really behaving strangely thing, and I'm really pissed off. Thank you for assisting with trying to find out what the reason is, I don't want to spend a minute more trying to bring alive the kit with bugs.
Topic now can be closed.
Richard L
26-06-2012, 07:45 PM
I am sorry that we cannot communicate effectively on solving your problem. I am happy to service your entire system at no charge if you like to return the system to me and just pay the return shipping charge
fplucid
23-07-2012, 07:02 PM
JFYI, main board is definately faulty.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WrKUK-dk8-o/UA2PVaVRwJI/AAAAAAAABSo/LVQoMNERfdQ/s512/%25D0%25A0%25C2%25A4%25D0%25A0%25D1%2595 %25D0%25A1%25E2%2580%259A%25D0%25A0%25D1 %25950135%255B1%255D.jpg
Black connector is on 4-pin ground, red is on the mark you've pointed on above picture. Chip has 12V as well on middle leg and something like 2-3V on left and right (don't remember exactly). Is this like it should behave? On the relay itself red and blue wires are having 12V constantly.
If I put ground on 6th connector pump begins to work and water is coming out.
Another thing is that when I tried to swap my controller to another which is installed on EVO IX (also here, in Moscow) everything was working smoothly, even indication on the blue connector was correct.
Are there any ways to solve this problem, fixing this board, or the only way is just to change it? I understand that this is not warranty case, and this is out of your interest, so I'm ready to purchase the board separately if it is possible. Can you please invoice a bill in paypal to my adress fplucid[at]gmail.com and I will proceed with payment.
Richard L
23-07-2012, 07:47 PM
I don't not charge minor repairs if you cover return shipping cost. Email me: richard-AT-aquamist.co.uk
We we locate aniothe rcircuit board, (v3) it will still have a link, if this is acceptable. We make links to improve the performace of the system over the interim period before moving on to the next board design. The V3 is the last version before the HFS-4 took over.
Richard L
23-07-2012, 10:24 PM
OK, lets have another go on this...
You are looking at the transistor that controls the pump relay. I have numbered the pins 1-4 on thre transistor.
Switching function of the transistor:
- Pin 1 .......... when a voltage of greater than 3V is applied, the transistor will switch on.
- Pin 2/4 .......... They will go to ground when it is switched on (pump starts) by pin1. (connected to blue wire of pump relay).
- Pin 3 .......... always grounded (connected to the black wire of molex).
Let me know if this makes sense so far
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS6/pmp-tx.gif
fplucid
24-07-2012, 08:35 AM
2-4 - always 12V (in normal & "TST" mode)
3 - ground, ok.
1 - normal - 0,4V, "TST" - ~1,25
So seems like there is signal coming to transistor and it is even changing, but too weak.
Richard L
24-07-2012, 12:47 PM
Thereare three small components below pin2 & 3. It is possible there is a dry joint there. If you carefully re-flow the solder on those components, it may solve the problem.
Let me know.
fplucid
24-07-2012, 02:05 PM
Just pinged all capacitors' ends - linkes are ok everywhere. Ok, it will try to re-solder these, but this will be really difficult.
BTW, 2 left capacitors have 310 (or something like this) marker, right one is brown without markers - is this ok (see photo)?
Can you please provide information for voltages on bottom ends of left and right capacitors in both modes, if it is not difficult. I will try to check this as well - maybe problem is somewhere deeper.
Richard L
24-07-2012, 06:05 PM
The unmarked parts are capacitors, the rest are resistor. They are not too important.
The next step. Put jumper on as below:
MPS = unlinked
IDC = linked
PRK = unlinked
TST = linked
INJ = unlinked (disable the FCM)
Please measure the voltages 1, 2,and 3. The voltage should all be over 5V. If they are, the pump relay should turn on.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS6/int.gif
fplucid
24-07-2012, 06:55 PM
Voltage there is twice higher than on left leg of transistor: ~2,50-2,58 in "TST"
Voltage halves on legs of left capacitor twice to 1,25-1,29.
Funny thing is that when I shorten lower legs of left and middle capacitor (equals shortening left capacitor), voltage of 2,58 is coming directly to left leg of transistor and pump begis to work! Unlinking "TST" drops voltage to 0,8 and pump is not working. This means system begins to function properly.
So what will you advice? Does constant shortening of legs of left capacitor makes sense?
Richard L
24-07-2012, 07:37 PM
I don't want to go into another direction. Is it possible for you to give me the voltages on location 1,2 and 3 as requested?
fplucid
24-07-2012, 07:54 PM
1 - 2,60
2 - 2,60
3 - 3,10
Richard L
24-07-2012, 08:57 PM
This is interesting, Those voltages are too low to turn the transistor on. It should be in the region of 5-7 volts. We have some how lost some voltage somewhere on the "TST" link.
There are three possibilities this voltage can be interfered with, I can rule out two of them by:
1. Removing the gauge harness
2. Removing the Pump harness.
Please now measure location 3...
fplucid
24-07-2012, 09:15 PM
1 - 3,10
2 - 3,10
Richard L
24-07-2012, 09:23 PM
Can you tell me if all the leds on the controller are still lit?
Richard L
24-07-2012, 09:33 PM
Please remove this transistor. This transistor does nothing useful. It is intended for a handheld tester but never put into production.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS6/q2.gif
fplucid
24-07-2012, 10:17 PM
It worked! Finally. After removing the transistor voltage jumped to 7+V and everything is functioning properly. Thank you very much, Richard, problem is resolved at last.
So is it ok to run system w/o this transistor?
Tomorrow I will try to make a test run to be sure everything is fine.
Thanks again!
Richard L
25-07-2012, 09:28 AM
It is good to know. This is a difficult one to trace but with your help, we did it. Thanks for your patience.
This transistor is for communicating with the handheld plug in. It has never gone into production. Its function is to tell the unit the status of the system, output to the user port. No other functions to the main controller circuitry.
fplucid
25-07-2012, 10:55 PM
Sorry, but seems like I'm having another, former problem here.
Re-installed and rewired everything and prepared for test-drive, but when I tried to enable "TST" mode I found out that water is not coming out of nozzle. Pump was working, all led's were lit, but also "Water level" was let on the gauge. "S" is lit, but no bars. Again, green led is not lit on red connector :( (yesterday it was lit, which is strange).
As you remember we've soldered brown and black cables in FCM, so I've opened it again and resoldered them as it was initially - no effect. Some area on pcb is extremly hot if it matters (dunno whether it should be like this).
After this took a car for a ride and put a nozzle pointing directly to windshield in front of me. Went to full boost - no water coming out, but noticed that "B" letter on the gauge is lit while on full boost.
Any suggestions for possible reasons for this? Really sorry for bothering you again.
Richard L
25-07-2012, 11:09 PM
On to the next problem solving.
The Brown wire modification should be permanent. Please "reinstate" the modification, brown wire from the 8-pin connector to black wire of the inline valve.
I cannot work with you if you keep making modifications before telling me. One step at a time. You are again telling me too many things that you might think useful but unfortunately it doesn't help, just add more confusions.
Let me know when you have reinstated the modification.
fplucid
25-07-2012, 11:17 PM
Ok, will do. Should I also take out restrictor as well as you asked on page 2 (currently 0,9 restrictor is installed)
Richard L
25-07-2012, 11:36 PM
The next three steps only:
(Check there is plenty of pressurised water in the inlet of the FCM (6mm) first.
1) Remove the restrictor (as you suggested)
2) Remove the 4mm hose on the outlet of the FCM
3) Put TST link on, let me know if you have water coming out of the FCM.
fplucid
26-07-2012, 09:13 AM
Conducted all the steps. Water is coming out from FCM.
Strange... so this should mean that nozzle is blocking the water?
Richard L
26-07-2012, 12:21 PM
So good so far.
next steps:
4) Whilst under TST with open FCM, can you see any bar display on the gauge?
5) If yes, put the same nozzle (previous test) in the outlet of the FCM, How many bars is the gauge displaying
wait for your results
fplucid
26-07-2012, 12:35 PM
4) no bars, water level led is lit, water is coming from FCM
5) same, but water is not coming out from nozzle
Richard L
26-07-2012, 01:50 PM
OK, we will look for the display problem first:
6) Is the FCM box fully closed?
7) Does the gauge show "S" when the red harness is plugged in?
Meanwhile, disassemble the nozzle and clear the clog. You need two 10mm spanners and a 1/8" flat blade screw driver.
fplucid
26-07-2012, 01:59 PM
6) No
7) Yes
Ok, I will clean the nozzle, close the box and will try again.
Richard L
26-07-2012, 03:13 PM
If the FCM box is not closed, the hall effect sensor on the circuit board will not read the turbine of the flow sensor
Close the box and repeat test 4 and 5.
fplucid
26-07-2012, 04:40 PM
Yes, this really helped. Thanks again, Richard.
Nozzle was full of dirt - probably it got there during these several month of laying under hood unconnected.
Currently everything is fine and flow sensor shows 7 bars in "TST" mode.
You said that box should be completely closed - should I re-seal it to be 100% sure that is sealed completely?
Richard L
26-07-2012, 04:46 PM
The circuit board is epoxy dipped to protect it from the environment. But the modification you did with the black and brown wire may need further moisture protection. May be tap up the gap of the FCM will do just as well.
Richard L
26-07-2012, 04:49 PM
The next step will be taking the car for a drive and play with the trimmers.
fplucid
02-08-2012, 04:26 PM
Thanks, Richard. Everything works just great.
I would like to build up direct port system. I think this will make sense. Which parts will be required? Can I ask to to assist and make a quote?
Richard L
02-08-2012, 05:07 PM
How many cylinders?
fplucid
03-08-2012, 11:51 AM
standard R4
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