Hfs-4 wiring for Audi B8 s4 3.0 (2009-2013)?

[infinkc]

Im planning on installing an HFS-4 into my 2010 s4 very soon. I was going to use the current a4 and tt diagrams to help me install the system. Anyone know if these diagrams would be the same? Richard have any specific wiring diagram for this car?

thanks!

[Richard L]

Let me know the engine code, I will look into this for you.

[infinkc]

Let me know the engine code, I will look into this for you.

CAKA
Simos 8 ecu

[Richard L]

I think I got that one on file. Let me know when you have it on your drive. I can do it quite quickly.

[infinkc]

I think I got that one on file. Let me know when you have it on your drive. I can do it quite quickly.

looking to do it in the next couple of weeks, will wait for your diagram as it will help.

[Richard L]

I do it this weekend unless I have a couple of hours during the week.

[Richard L]

I think this will work. Not sure how to implement the failsafe for a supercharged engine.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2519

[infinkc]

Thanks Richard,
I pulled up a wiring diagram for G71 and G247 and show different locations. Are you able to check your source? The injector pins(N30) are the same on the source i used, diagram says a4, but its for the CAKA engine.

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6853/lob5.jpg
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6853/lob5.jpg You might have to right click save as, since most browsers resize the drawing.

[Richard L]

you are quite right, I put the wrong label on the HFS4 wires. It is now corrected. Let me know if it looks right now.

I have access to the factory wiring for most of audi and vw range. They are more accurate than me.

[Richard L]

you are quite right, I put the wrong label on the HFS4 wires. It is now corrected. Let me know if it looks right now.

I have access to the factory wiring for most of audi and vw range. They are more accurate than me.

[infinkc]

Will have to look at the diagram later when i get home, some reason i cant enlarge the one i posted up to compare with, think i actually uploaded the thumbnail instead.

was thinking on the failsafe, there is a "J808" bypass valve on the charger, looks like it it from this diagram, that it default open, so if you cut the motor on it, it should open up, bypassing the boost. Only issue to to trick the other wires so it doesnt throw a cel if it goes into failsafe.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/29/dbwn.jpg

[Richard L]

This is a good find. I was looking for BCV until I realised the car is supercharged. So this valve should work, need to know how to approach this.

Cutting the motor control wire may not work, it might just stay in the same position since the ECU is controlling the position of the flop by the two wires to the v308, based on the J808's voltage feedback.

If the voltage of J808 goes outside the 0.5 to 4.5V, the motor will go immediately to full bypass mode and drop boost.

I suggest we can intercept the feedback signal and force the flap into a more open position. This way, it might not throw a code and we can achieve our failsafe activation without having to recycle the ignition key.

There are several ways to achieve this by the HFS4. Do you have the car on your drive yet? We can start working on this.

[infinkc]

Richard, i had a question on the controller jumper settings, your diagram you have 2.5 MAP, the instructions for the hfs4 say if for 2.5 use the 3 setting. I am using a controller that had a sticker in it with 2.5 circled already but the jumper was on the "2". It was configured previously for a 335i N54. Do i still change it to "3"?

Second question, i am running direct port (6 jets) do i set the sensor jumper for "1-2"

[Richard L]

I can't seem to find the page where the manual says for 2.5 use 3 setting. It may be on one of the earlier manual (pre v2).

- HFS4-v1 has 2 or 3 bar map sensor option.
- HFS4-v2 has 2.5 or 3.5 map sensor option.

If you have a v1, for 2.5 use 3 setting. Hope this clarifies it.

[Richard L]

I was wondering if we inject some voltage to the valve, can we fool the ECU to perform a partially opened state.

[infinkc]

I can't seem to find the page where the manual says for 2.5 use 3 setting. It may be on one of the earlier manual (pre v2).

- HFS4-v1 has 2 or 3 bar map sensor option.
- HFS4-v2 has 2.5 or 3.5 map sensor option.

If you have a v1, for 2.5 use 3 setting. Hope this clarifies it.

How do I tell if it's a v1 or 2? The manual I pulled from the howertonengineering site which is the v1.

I was wondering if we inject some voltage to the valve, can we fool the ECU to perform a partially opened state.

Yea I need to play around and see what will be the best option to get the fail safe working. I should have it all up and running tomorrow.

[Richard L]

Can you tell me the serial number of the controller.

It is confusing to pull a manual from a site rather referring to the original printed manual accompanying the system.

There are some small prints on the circuit board along the bottom edge. If it is ... iss4. It will be the version 2.

[infinkc]

serial 1xxxxx

[Richard L]

This is an earlier one, v1.

You need to link "3" for a 2.5 bar map sensor.

[infinkc]

Another question, does the RED 95% LED need to come on during full load? Wasnt really clear to me in the manual. Seems you dont want it to come on if i read it correct. Mine does not illuminate.

Here is a quick shot of my install, will make a thread in the gallery when i get more pictures uploaded.

http://imageshack.us/a/img707/3424/jm4l.jpg

[Richard L]

No, it doesn't need to come on at all. If it does, it has reached its ceiling.

Very nice looking work!

[infinkc]

This is a good find. I was looking for BCV until I realised the car is supercharged. So this valve should work, need to know how to approach this.

Cutting the motor control wire may not work, it might just stay in the same position since the ECU is controlling the position of the flop by the two wires to the v308, based on the J808's voltage feedback.

If the voltage of J808 goes outside the 0.5 to 4.5V, the motor will go immediately to full bypass mode and drop boost.

I suggest we can intercept the feedback signal and force the flap into a more open position. This way, it might not throw a code and we can achieve our failsafe activation without having to recycle the ignition key.

There are several ways to achieve this by the HFS4. Do you have the car on your drive yet? We can start working on this.

Ok, car is all ready now, system is installed minus the failsafes. Not sure where to start with this. I have all the tools needed if i need to measure the voltages on the valve while the car is running.

[Richard L]

One step at a time, and update every stage if possible..

Can you measure the voltage of pin 2 when the idle and WOT?

[infinkc]

One step at a time, and update every stage if possible..

Can you measure the voltage of pin 2 when the idle and WOT?

Haven't had anytime to get the measurements yet. Still on my to do list.

What do you think about adding a single .3 injector pre blower? just for air cooling, would it work ok with my direct port setup? I would jut run a line off the end of the 6 port manifold where its currently plugged.

[Richard L]

There is no harm putting a 0.3 jet. Anything to keep the SC casing/gearbox cool is a plus. It will of course cooling the air as well.

The extra port on the 6-port manifold is ideal for that. An inline checkvalve would be advised if the hose is long.

[MiztahSparklez]

Hey Richard, I have inherited this project and had some more questions about failsafe.

It looks like the bypass valve that was mentioned before is just a motor and an angle sensor. Can the HFS-4 be wired to use this somehow?

https://preview.ibb.co/e8phRv/SC_Bypass_Page_1.png (https://ibb.co/gfPGmv)
https://preview.ibb.co/gRwkeF/SC_Bypass_Page_2.png (https://ibb.co/iaNQeF)
image ru (https://imgbb.com/)

[Richard L]

I think it may work.

You need apply a 5V bias at pin 2 or disconnect pin 1. Need to experiment.

[MiztahSparklez]

Ok let me measure the voltage on pin 2. I'll see if I can manage to log the bypass from the ecu to match up.

I can also just disconnect pin one to see what happens.

Do you know what the corresponding pins are on the ECU? Otherwise I'll test continuity of whatever color wires I find.

[Richard L]

I will email it to you.

[MiztahSparklez]

I will email it to you.

Hey Richard,

Did you send me anything? I didn't see it in my email if you did.

Thanks

[Richard L]

sent wiring diagram

[MiztahSparklez]

Hey Richard,

I finally had some time to work on the system this weekend. I have all the injectors mounted. However, I had to reposition the throttle body injector so that the nozzle is on the bottom of the plate spraying upwards. It won't fit any other way. It might fit differently if I get a right angle immediately following the nozzle, otherwise it puts way too much stress or hits the throttle body itself.

Will I see any issues with pooling or clogging in this position? Is there anything I should check part of routine maintenance?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170925/1ac14288a85a9c4f6416659ef53a5b2a.jpg

[Richard L]

I would not advise to fit the jet at the throttle. You can move it towards the exit of the IC?
Pooling is unlikely unless to trigger the system at very low boost or very long delivery line. The FAV has a shut-off time of 0.003s.

Try not to put the jet at the bottom of the charge pipe so the residual oil/water will not flow into the jet under idle period, avoiding the chances of clogging up.

[MiztahSparklez]

I would not advise to fit the jet at the throttle. You can move it towards the exit of the IC?
Pooling is unlikely unless to trigger the system at very low boost or very long delivery line. The FAV has a shut-off time of 0.003s.

Try not to put the jet at the bottom of the charge pipe so the residual oil/water will not flow into the jet under idle period, avoiding the chances of clogging up.

This is one of 7 jets. The other 6 are after the supercharger (direct port). This one is pre-charger.

I wonder if I can fit a right angle adapter in there so I can rotate the throttle body adapter 90 degrees.

Anyhow, I should get some more time in the next couple weeks to get the system dialed in and the failsafe tested. Seems like things are coming along nicely!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170927/a02e37af28322a0e7478a66d4a8c0cf4.jpg

[Richard L]

instead of running long lines to the hex manifold, put the H.manifold on the centre of the block.

[MiztahSparklez]

Hey Richard, I'm attempting to tune the HFS4 and my logging is less than optimal for when meth is activating. I am getting timing pull on the 91 octane tune I have. I also had some strange activation issues where the system would light up both lights (even with failsafes set to fully counterclockwise/clockwise respectively) and not spray. Perhaps my ratio of P/I-R and thres was not set low enough to engage.

Is it better to use the MPS or IDC jumper for triggering in my case? My boost level is around 19-20PSI. Likewise, should I have the p/i-r knob kept at half, above or below? I am trying to get a better understanding of how these settings change the system. Edit: I think the order of tuning goes P/I-R, Thres, then Gain, this is something I just realized now. All the settings relate to one another.

From what I understand so far:

Trigger jumper/POT: this is how much load/boost you wish to trigger the system. I have it set to 30-45% and jumper set to IDC. This engages about the time where I start loading the engine and sprays during mid-range and higher RPM.

P/I-R - flow ratio in terms of boost and fuel. Counterclockwise will adjust flow rate more in line with boost, while clockwise will adjust it based on fuel/injector load. (This one I'm not sure is working the way I think. At one point I attempted to go fully counter clockwise, but got no spray with two yellow lights). I almost think boost isn't being read correctly or I have something set wrong (edit, likely Threshold set too high). I did get the B to light every time I hit boost, however.

Gain: this is how fast you reach max flow of your system, in relation to what is set in the POT above.

I did not reach the 95% IDC light at all while I was tuning

I measured all the tank connections, power and the floater seem to be working the way it should.

[MiztahSparklez]

So it looks like I was able to smooth out the timing pull but by turning P/I-R to the 1 o'clock position and adjusting thres and gain accordingly. However, I am wondering if I have an issue of where I tapped boost from, as I started seeing the unreliable behavior when using MPS and had the P/I-R knob set below the 12 position. If I set it to the 10-11 position, I would only see spray seldomly and sporadically. Setting thres too low and I was seeing spray at idle!

I think for my use of boosting octane primarily then providing cooling secondary, it is probably okay for me to use engine load as the ramp mechanism.

[Richard L]

Have you match up map sensor range with the under-board MPS solder link?

[MiztahSparklez]

Have you match up map sensor range with the under-board MPS solder link?

It is currently set for 3 bar. (This is a v1 controller).

I may try to reflow the solder. Perhaps there is a cold joint.

I did another test today, could not get the system to do anything with MPS as the trigger. Zero flow and high boost does not light up. Do you know the range of voltage I am supposed to see from this wire? Maybe I can hook up my multimeter to check if voltage is sufficient.

I can confirm IDC is working correctly. The light progressively goes up with rpm/load. Seems strange though. Sometimes my flow barely reaches 75% at a high rpm. Then other times I can get flow that goes past 100 and the IDC 95 light may even appear.

I think I may take everything apart and clean all the parts as well. I feel that with this setup, I should not be pulling timing the way that I am. Everything just seems very sporadic and not consistent.

Getting the system flowing correctly is the current priority. After I figure it out (maybe even if I need to order new parts), I can work on getting the failsafes in place.

[MiztahSparklez]

Have you match up map sensor range with the under-board MPS solder link?

It is currently set for 3 bar. (This is a v1 controller).

I may try to reflow the solder. Perhaps there is a cold joint.

I did another test today, could not get the system to do anything with MPS as the trigger. Zero flow and high boost does not light up. Do you know the range of voltage I am supposed to see from this wire? Maybe I can hook up my multimeter to check if voltage is sufficient.

I can confirm IDC is working correctly. The light progressively goes up with rpm/load. Seems strange though. Sometimes my flow barely reaches 75% at a high rpm. Then other times I can get flow that goes past 100 and the IDC 95 light may even appear.

I think I may take everything apart and clean all the parts as well. I feel that with this setup, I should not be pulling timing the way that I am. Everything just seems very sporadic and not consistent.

Getting the system flowing correctly is the current priority. After I figure it out (maybe even if I need to order new parts), I can work on getting the failsafes in place.

[Richard L]

If you probe test point 5, let me know the voltage:
1. pre-crank
2. idling

[MiztahSparklez]

If you probe test point 5, let me know the voltage:
1. pre-crank
2. idling

Hmm this seems wrong, test point 5 is reading battery voltage. 12v

[Richard L]

My mistake, test point 17. Sorry.

[MiztahSparklez]

.76v accessory
.87-.88v engine idle (edit: seems like it's .94v after a few minutes of idling. My analog boost gauge reads -19.9psi)

Voltage does climb slightly with throttle position.

[Richard L]

This seemed to be a bit on the low side. What is the operating range of the MAP sensor?

a 2-bar MAP sensor should read approximately 1.8V precrank.
a 3-bar map sensor should read approximately 1.3V pre-crank.

[MiztahSparklez]

This seemed to be a bit on the low side. What is the operating range of the MAP sensor?

a 2-bar MAP sensor should read approximately 1.8V precrank.
a 3-bar map sensor should read approximately 1.3V pre-crank.

Hmm might be part of my problem. The sensor is supposed to be 2.5 bar. The voltage output goes from 0-5v according to the same document I found the bypass information in. Wonder if I tapped the wire for temperature and not pressure. The map sensors have both boost and temperature built in.

[Richard L]

this makes sense.

[MiztahSparklez]

Hey Richard,

I have found that my car actually has yellow with gray stripe wiring for the map sensors post charger. These are found on the right side harness #9 when counting from the right on top and #8 when counting from right on bottom. This is in line with the image below. I was able to test continuity of the wires to verify. I will solder again to one of these wires and test out my activation.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS4/wiring/Audi-A8/H4v3.1_CGXC.gif

[Richard L]

I am confused with you pin location. Two ECU compartments: 60 pin and 94 pin.

Tell me which compartment and pin#. Once located, I will check for you.

[MiztahSparklez]

I am confused with you pin location. Two ECU compartments: 60 pin and 94 pin.

Tell me which compartment and pin#. Once located, I will check for you.

Pin 86 and pin 75. 86 appears to be passenger side map, 75 is driver side. Both wires are yellow with gray stripe. 94 pin side

I believe the temperature wire was the yellow with light blue stripe (this was reading .8-.9v when at idle).

[Richard L]

I am having problem understanding your description.

Pin 37/T60 is the pre-TB MAP sensor

[MiztahSparklez]

I am having problem understanding your description.

Pin 37/T60 is the pre-TB MAP sensor

I am saying that the black/blue stripe wire I used previously for CAKA was not the right wire for me on pin 41 T60 connector. This was the one that gave me the low voltage reading.

Sorry I typed wrong it's pin 86 t90 for passenger, and 65 t90 for the driver. These are post supercharger map sensors. I did not check the map located near the TB.

[Richard L]

I am still confused, about the driver and passenger. Are they important?

[MiztahSparklez]

I am still confused, about the driver and passenger. Are they important?

I am saying there are actually 3 sensors on the car. One is pre charger, two are post charger, one for each bank. I don't think there's a difference between left and right sensor, but you do have an option of which side to tap. Maybe it is possible to confirm these wires are correct from your diagram collection.

I still seem to be getting this strange rushing up and down on the flow meter. Like as it activated and spray is happening, the flow meter rushes up but goes up and down during acceleration. It doesn't seem like there is a steady flow. Could a bad fav cause something like this?

I'll try to grab a video. I can be making 18psi of boost, but hit 60-70% at Max, but as it continues spraying, it's going anywhere between 25-75% flickering. Other times I'll strangely see 90%+ with the same amount of boost.

Ive watched some videos online and the flow seems to be quite solid from what I seen. Ramp up goes and then I see people spraying 100% not flickering.

[Richard L]

I now understand 100%. It doesn't really matter which, as long as we have some information regarding the pressure post TB. Aquamist system uses F-IDC to meter flow. Boost pressure is used for correct purposes only.

The flow should not be rushing up and down at all, there is something wrong. One way we can find if the system is reading the IDC% properly or not: link "FDC" jumper and see if the incoming IDC signal is linear or not.

Post the results here.