PDA

View Full Version : LSJ Cobalt/Ion Redline ECU pinout


Dust
01-01-2014, 01:29 AM
http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/05cobalt20.htm

Here is the ecu pinout. I am hoping to get the boost control solenoid for the failsafe. I don't know what all will need to be tested though.

Richard L
01-01-2014, 09:09 AM
Is it a supercharged engine?

Dust
01-01-2014, 05:19 PM
Yes. M62 supercharger. Same engine used in the Ariel atom I think.

Richard L
02-01-2014, 09:51 AM
Can you tell how the boost solenoid vent the boost pressure of a supercharger system?

Dust
02-01-2014, 01:12 PM
It either allows air into the intake manifold or bypasses it back to the intake side. If you need a better description, I can try to find one.

Richard L
02-01-2014, 09:54 PM
The valve must be quite large to channel the volume of air back to the intake.
Can you post a picture of this solenoid valve?

Dust
03-01-2014, 01:27 AM
Check out pic 2

http://www.redlineforums.com/forums/buy-sell-parts/61330-sale-m62-intake-mani-misc-etc.html

which feeds to the IM

http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-2l-l61-performance-tech-45/mp81s-supercharged-l61-build-155214/

Richard L
03-01-2014, 09:57 AM
Thanks for the link.

I can see the bypass valve/wastegate arrangement. What will happen when the power cut one of the wire to the solenoid valve? Not sure how all these part go together.

The HFS system failsafe is just a change over relay contact, until I understand how these parts work together I cannot make a connection diagram.

Dust
03-01-2014, 04:29 PM
http://www.redlineforums.com/forums/performance-modifications/51751-unplugged-boost-solenoid-africa-drops-wot.html

From what I am reading it will completely close the valve, meaning no air bypasses, and all goes through the blower.

Richard L
03-01-2014, 07:06 PM
According to the poster, when the solenoid is unplugged, the boost goes up. This is not good. He was a bit vague about what eas unplugged, a hose of electrical connector?

He wrote:

Watch how your boost climbs. When I unplugged one of my connections or lines to the solenoid (dont remember whcih one it was) when I was testing if it was bad, the boost would go to about 10 lbs and then ramp up to 20 within about a second or so when I went WOT. It felt like a car with a small turbo. Also since our cars are not boost referenced for fuel delivery it would go to 10:1 on the wideband for that second or so. Its worth a check

Can you make a bit more sense from above?

Do you have the S/C system on your car at the moment?

Dust
05-01-2014, 05:50 PM
Yes, I do.

The bypass will default to fully open. In the beginning of modding this engine, people would disconnect the solenoid to "bypass" PCM boost control to get more boost.
The LSJ fuel system does not have a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, meaning that fuel pressure is not increased to keep up with boost pressure. 0 psi boost and 15 psi boost have the same fuel pressure.

What else do you need to know about the system? I can start a thread asking questions on cobaltss.net.

Dust
05-01-2014, 07:29 PM
Give me the technical on how the bypass valve operates:
The valve consists of a butterfly inside the supercharger housing. Its position is determined by an external valve (a black canister on the front right side of the housing) that is operated off of engine vaccum. The valve inside is a rubber diaphram which lifts up a lever system to open the valve, at rest it is in a down and closed position. A vaccum source from a 3 way T ontop of the supercharger creates a vaccum on this diaphram to open the valve on startup. Once the throttle blade is opened and the supercharger starts to move more air into the intake manifold, this vaccum encounters a counter force. Running off the same vaccum line that fees the MAP sensor and fuel pressure regulator, this build of pressure in the intake manifold will feed into the top of the bypass valve from the opposite side. Upon a certain pressure off the intake manifold, an equilibrium will be created with the vaccum from the supercharger inlet that had held the bypass valve open. Upon this equilibrium, this bypass valve will close, and eventually a positive pressure will be created to keep the bypass valve closed. At this point, the intake manifold is sealed, free of major vaccum leaks and a positive pressure can be created by the supercharger aka boost.

Richard L
05-01-2014, 09:30 PM
I tried to make sense of it all. So far the term valve is used many times so it is confusing for me.

These are the items:
1. Electronic solenoid valve (PWM'ed by ECU)
2. Wastegate actuator/cannister (= external valve)
3. Valve (= butterfly)
4. Bypass valve is the term used to describe the combination of 1, 2, and 3.


But I need to know a few more things:
1. How many ports does the solenoid valve have?
2. Where do they go to?

Dust
05-01-2014, 10:12 PM
Pic 1
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo302/07blue22/100_1702.jpg

Pic 2
http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s473/55cameo2/For%20sale/20131216_074635_zps1082e164.jpg

There is a solenoid on the outside of the blower(seen attached to the blower in pic 1, on the lower right side, also top right of Pic 2). It has two vacuum ports (you can see both in Pic 1), one to atmosphere and one to pre-blower vacuum. It also has an electronic connection controlled by the PCM. It rotates a plate ("valve", gold piece in Pic 2). It connects the pre-blower(after throttle body and before blower rotors) and post blower (see the blue circle piece sticking out the left side of the intake manifold in the first pic). When it opens, it allows post blower air (from the intake manifold) back up to the blower inlet (before the blower) allowing less or no boost to be made. As RPMS increase, the valve will close, allowing more boost to actually get to the engine.

Richard L
06-01-2014, 12:44 AM
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS4/wiring/Cobolt-SS-TC/info/parts1.jpg

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS4/wiring/Cobolt-SS-TC/info/sc1.jpg


Please clarify the ?

1a ............ to ?
1b ............ to ?

2 ............. to ? Is this the solenoid? One port?
2a ................ to ? Is this the connector to the ECU or a hose?


3 ............ wastegate
4.............. bypass butterfly.... Shut = full boost. Open = no boost

Dust
06-01-2014, 01:31 AM
Apologies Richard, I misspoke above. What I am reading about parts and what is happening with the pics are not always matching up. We're figuring this out together. The electronic portion is a separate piece, labeled as the bypass solenoid in the diagram. No.1 is the Bypass actuator.

Real Pic
http://www.aveoforum.com/forum/attachments/f82/4456d1312856651-ecotec-lsj-aveo-supercharged-2-0l-engine-swap-installed-engine-jpg

Diagram
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s288/ocshaman/IMG_20140105_190914_zps0ec165a0.jpg


1a pre blower vacuum port just downstream
1b leads to the bypass solenoid, and then to the intake manifold.

2 - It's the IC pump, different circuit.

Howerton Engineering
06-01-2014, 05:16 AM
I could be wrong, but this looks to be similar to the unit we use on the MINI. Is the bypass actuator spring loaded?

Ours works in this way: There is a spring that holds the valve shut. Engine vacuum pulls on the diaphragm, countering the spring and pulling the valve open into "bypass" mode.

So when you start the car, the valve is closed proving positive flow though the TB into the engine. Once the engine starts, vacuum pulls the valve open. As the TB is opened more air is allowed into the blower, which is more than the engine can digest, creating a positive pressure allowing the valve to shut.

On the MINI you need a positive vacuum source to open the valve during boost to provide a failsafe in this manner.

Again, there could be something else going on here I'm not seeing.

Richard L
06-01-2014, 08:35 AM
Can you take a picture of the bypass solenoid?

There should be 3 ports and a electrical connector. Let me know how many pins on the connector (2?)

Richard L
06-01-2014, 08:41 AM
Jeff, thanks for chiming in.

From your description of the mini, there are no solenoid valve?

There is a label (pic above) shows a solenoid valve for this set up. I just need one more picture of this part and all will be clear.

Dust
06-01-2014, 01:46 PM
Jeff, that is the way I have been reading it works. Like above, it was posted on the internet so a certain amount of salt should be applied.
The electrical connector I will check on at lunch. It's sitting at home because we had some bad weather and the DD has traction control. Looking at your 1ab 2a picture it's just to the left of the throttle body.

The bypass solenoid I am seeing online is this

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/Ecotec-LSJ-Supercharger-Bypass-Valve-Solenoid-1997244-P17617C594.aspx

You can barely see the second port behind the filter.

Richard L
06-01-2014, 04:24 PM
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS4/wiring/Cobolt-SS-TC/info/ecotec.jpg

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS4/wiring/Cobolt-SS-TC/info/solenoid-s.jpg


- Top picture ............ ecotec product (from link)
- Bottom picture .......... googled. It has three port.

I think they are the same valve. One with dust guard

Can you tell me where the ports is connected to:
a ...... assume to atmosphere?
b ...... ?
c ...... ?

Dust
06-01-2014, 06:55 PM
C is atmosphere, hence the dust guard in first pic
A connects to the intake manifold and B connects to the bottom port of the "SC bypass actuator". The electric connection on "A" side faces the back of the car. The coworker that was supposed to help me with the car took off before lunch so it will be after work before I can tell you the connections, although from the pic it seems like there is only two.

Richard L
06-01-2014, 09:49 PM
I think I have enough information to produce a wiring diagram for your car. Give me a few day.

If available, can your source a ECU wiring diagram and a picture of the PCM (pin out side)? You have already provided the pin out.

Dust
06-01-2014, 10:27 PM
http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/05cobalt20.htm

Almost the same, but the high speed from 1 and 2 aren't there for the Redline from what I am reading. Here is the Redline pinout

http://www.redlineforums.com/forums/ion-redline-discussion/4235-ok-finally-pcm-cheat-sheet-better.html

Richard L
06-01-2014, 11:01 PM
Please check the diagram below is correct.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS4/wiring/Cobolt-SS-TC/bypass schematics.gif

Richard L
06-01-2014, 11:04 PM
I have all those diagrams already. I like to see the wiring outside the PCM and may be an image of the PCM itself.

Richard L
06-01-2014, 11:59 PM
Is this the correct PCM?

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS4/wiring/Cobolt-SS-TC/info/pcm-s.jpg

Dust
07-01-2014, 02:44 AM
That looks like it.

Between the fuse box and BOV. LSJ, but turboed. Leaves more space in that area to see it.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/525297_10151385082856003_1942703464_n.jp g

This is the next generation of the engine, but it has a much better pic of the PCM.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa204/unknowngod430/IMAG0410.jpg

Look in the middle of this picture at the blue piece. That is the elctric connection for the solenoid above.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8484/8152465812_8f4d4b6966_b.jpg

http://cobaltss.net/gallery/files/1/3/7/7/5/steves_engine_2.jpg

Dust
07-01-2014, 03:24 AM
And should your first 29 in the diagram you made be 33?

Richard L
07-01-2014, 09:29 AM
Sorry, made the correction. I will make the H4/LSJ wiring drawing as soon as I can.

Richard L
08-01-2014, 12:18 AM
Thanks for all those pictures, it is good to have those references.

I think this one should work.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS4/wiring/Cobolt-SS-TC/H4-v2-LSJ.gif

Richard L
08-01-2014, 08:13 AM
If you can get the overall wiring diagram, including the pcm and fuse box, I should be able to locate a suitable terminal for the switch positive at the PCM. For now, it will have to do.

Dust
03-02-2014, 01:21 AM
Here is the fuse block. The bottom left post is positive, and the bottom right is for jumping the car, as the battery is in the back.

The fuse block is right behind the PCM, so the positive would probably be better coming from the fuse block post.

Food for thought after this, is spray injection point.

Choice 1
http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/510-LSJ-Throttle-Body-Spacer-Plate.aspx

Choice 2
http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/471-LSJ-M62-Spacer-Plate.aspx

I can get #1 for about $30 from a different vendor, and #2 is used for $50 or less. Been told that the meth doesn't affect the coating on the rotors.

Richard L
03-02-2014, 05:33 PM
Thanks for the fuse box picture. Do you have a diagram showing how the cables are routed and the functions of each. I need to pick one out that feeds the fuel injection system.

The bottom left is 12V and the right is connected to the starter motor?

Sandwich plates, both looks good. I suppose it doesn't matter where the jet is as it all points towards the center. I will get a better idea if they are in situ.

Dust
03-02-2014, 07:03 PM
http://www.saturn.com/content/dam/saturn/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Owners/Owner_Resources/Manuals/en/us/2005/ion/2005-saturn-ion-owners-manual.pdf
Scroll down to page 318ish for the SC version. I will try to find the wires coming into the fuse block.

Dust
03-02-2014, 07:11 PM
Number two will mount the nozzle on the "top" of the intake manifold in the link
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=19728&postcount=14
I could probably tap the right side for a second nozzle if needed.

Richard L
04-02-2014, 09:53 AM
I was hoping to find a similar diagram to the below, show where the power wires are terminated to the ECU and fuse box from the battery on.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/LGT_ECU_wiring_2.jpg

Dust
29-03-2014, 03:21 PM
Richard, i am going to send you a PM with information to get to the factory service manuals. It should get you everything you need.

Dust
19-04-2014, 04:25 PM
Richard, looking at the drawing above, how is interrupting the bypass valve signal going to help lose boost if it fails open and allows full boost?

And as an edit, some of the other factory SC GMs have this same setup, so if we can get it working for the LSJ, it may be useful for the L67 and L32

Dust
19-12-2014, 02:19 PM
Car is in the shop getting the MAP and Injector negative wire run to the steering column area. Will be trading a red gauge for a blue gauge.

Why shouldn't I install two systems? PPS up front and HFS-6 in the trunk.