No flow reading from water injection!

[torquemaniac]

Hi all,

My HFS4-v2 has been running superbly since the install (about a month), then two weeks ago the bargraph jumped to 8 bars on a WOT run (usualy doesnt go over 6 bars)

After this event, the bargraph never lit again and the failsafe (disable high boost) keeps trigerring when the injection should usualy start

Here are the system diagnosis I did :

- checked the f-IDC led on the controller : led is flickering normaly
- tested the spray on the windshield with the FAV and SYS jumper : its spraying like it should, but no bars are illuminating on the gauge
- tested the gauge bargraph with the FDC jumper : the bargraph works perfectly (shows the f-IDC of the engine while driving)
- checked the flow sensing unit connector, harness and sensing head : everything looks good
- disassembled the flow sensor turbine : everything is fine...not clogged
- used a magnet near the flow sensing head : no effect on the bargraph

When the car is started, the gauge goes through the usual system-on procedure (tank level led illuminate for few seconds, then is turn off when the water injection and S led illuminate)

The system seems to spray somewhat even with the failsafe triggering because the tank empty slowly (the tank is not leaking...)

Is there a way to test if its the flow sensing unit or the controller that is the problem?

[Richard L]

It appeared you have done all the right tests so far.

Two more tests for you.

1. remove the flow body from the FAV, blow into the one end, do you hear a whirling sound?

2. If you do, chip on the sensor cable and tell me if you see and bars on the gauge as you blow.

1. No sound = the turbine wheel is jammed.
2. No bar display = the sensor cable is faulty

[torquemaniac]

It appeared you have done all the right tests so far.

Two more tests for you.

1. remove the flow body from the FAV, blow into the one end, do you hear a whirling sound?

2. If you do, chip on the sensor cable and tell me if you see and bars on the gauge as you blow.

1. No sound = the turbine wheel is jammed.
2. No bar display = the sensor cable is faulty

Hi Richard,

I will do the turbine test, but when I reassembled the turbine after inspection, I could hear a small ''clac...clac...clac'' when the FAV assembly was shaken...meaning that the trubine was not jammed but loose to move a little

Is there an easy way effectively test the flow sensor head (clip) with a magnet (I read somewhere that false flow reading could come from electromagnetic disturbance near the FAV assembly...I then guess that this could be used to test the flow sensor head)!?

Is there a way to test the sensor cable with a multimeter (example : by checking the Ohm reading)?

If the cable is faulty, where do you think the problem is most likely to be (connector, sensor head...)?

Thanks

Eric

[Richard L]

You need a cyclic change of magnetic polarity. Your best bet is using the turbine body. Just keeps blowing with the sensor cable clipped on.

Richard

[torquemaniac]

Richard,

I did the test and there is a turbine-like sound, but the bargraph is not illuminating even blowing 100psi air in the turbine...

I redid the test with the nozzle spraying on the windshield, and its spraying good but not bar on the gauge again

Anything else I can test?

What wire can I test for continuity on the yellow harness with a multimeter (at the connector)?

Can the controller be tested with the test points on the board6

I really want to eliminate all possibilities before buying new stuff and having to pass more wire though the damn grommet...

[torquemaniac]

Richard,

I tested the yellow harness wire with a cheap multimeter on the connector pins (harness unpluged from the controller)...here are the results :

Black+ and Blue- = about 1 Ohm
Blue+ and Black- = about 1 Ohm
Black+ and Red- = about 30 Ohm
Red+ and Black- = about 300 Ohm
Blue+ and Red- = about 30 Ohm
Red+ and Blue- = about 500 Ohm
Yellow+ and Black- = about 4 Ohm

Does this make any sense to you!?

Could I plug my old HFS-3 controller and make the windshield spray test to see if the bars on the gauge illuminate?

[torquemaniac]

Richard,

Can you give some feedback...please!!!

[Richard L]

I think the sensor cable is faulty.
What is the serial number of the controller? The HFS4 version 2 is at least two years old.

If you put 100psi compressed air thought the sensor tube, it will melt the bearings for good.

[torquemaniac]

You sold me the HFS4 v.2 controller on february 2014 (SN121472)

Are you asking for the warranty?

If you say the sensor cable is faulty, I will just buy a new one...

The compressed air was used for just an instant (the turbine spin pretty easily)

[Richard L]

You bought it in 2014 and only just installed it recently? I was confused why you have a HFS4-v2 (up to March 2014) instead of a HFS4-v3.11 (July 2015)

What car do you have?

It all pointed towards the sensor cable from your description.

[torquemaniac]

LOL...no garage, kids, homework, overtime...those are the thing that makes my build freakin slow!!!

I had acquired an unused HFS3 v.1 from a guy that got it while buying a RX-7 from another dude (the guy didnt want the HFS3 because he used a Wannaspeed pre-turbo injection kit)

http://wannaspeed.com/home/8-mechanical-water-injection.html

I have a CX-7 with the Mazdaspeed engine and big turbo setup...I communicated through direct email with you about a month ago for the install (you know the guy with the endless questions)

I will go on your Aquamist store and buy a new sensor cable then (the cable is out of stock on the Howerton Engineering store...)

One last question (again) : is the sensor a really sensitive device...if the sensor backed in the clip (more distant from the turbine), could it affect reading?

I ask because the sensor head looks backed in the clip on my cable...

[Richard L]

The sensor has to be quite close to the body. With the clip on, the sensor will remain the permitted gap even the tip is slightly retracted into the sensor body. So it still points to a faulty sensor.

If the sensor cable was plugged into the wrong slot in the controller, it can damage it. Or if the red harness is plugged into the sensor slot, it can damage the circuitry. So get the cable and go from there. Once the system left the factory, one can never predict what people do with it. Every case is different and long drawn out. Have been doing this for years.

Cannot guarantee ii will fix it. If you have a friend with an aquamist system. You can test the cable.

[Richard L]

I looked back on all the past communications with you.

It all started with your first enquiry of purchasing a HFS3-v2 controller in July 2014 to replace an older v1 (2011). It was an obsolete product by March 2013. So I offered you an brand new HFS4-v2 controller and a free green cable with a good discount. You reluctantly accepted the offer, stating it was a ridiculous price even with a greatly reduced price as the HFS4-v2 was replaced by the HFS4-v3 at the time.

I am not too impressive with your initial post, stating your have recently installed the system and the system stopped showing flow after one month of use.

For those forum members who did not know the history, it could come across as the Aquamist is highly unreliable and broke down after two months of usage. I think you have done yourself a dis-service, after no less than 91 emails communications between us for last 15 months, helping you to get a 4+ year old system to working order. You have decided to post onto this forum for some unknown reason. I thought we were making grounds.

Since you have made the choice of asking for a second opinion on this forum, I will respect your wishes and will not participate on future discussion from here on. I wish you the best of luck for the future.

[torquemaniac]

I looked back on all the past communications with you.

It all started with your first enquiry of purchasing a HFS3-v2 controller in July 2014 to replace an older v1 (2011). It was an obsolete product by March 2013. So I offered you an brand new HFS4-v2 controller and a free green cable with a good discount. You reluctantly accepted the offer, stating it was a ridiculous price even with a greatly reduced price as the HFS4-v2 was replaced by the HFS4-v3 at the time.

I am not too impressive with your initial post, stating your have recently installed the system and the system stopped showing flow after one month of use.

For those forum members who did not know the history, it could come across as the Aquamist is highly unreliable and broke down after two months of usage. I think you have done yourself a dis-service, after no less than 91 emails communications between us for last 15 months, helping you to get a 4+ year old system to working order. You have decided to post onto this forum for some unknown reason. I thought we were making grounds.

Since you have made the choice of asking for a second opinion on this forum, I will respect your wishes and will not participate on future discussion from here on. I wish you the best of luck for the future.

Hello Richard,

I have the most respect for you and would not trade the HFS4 for any other system

I can assure you that in no way was I reluctant to buy the HFS4 v.2 because of a bad deal...I am very grateful that you offer me the HFS4 v.2 at a pretty good deal...my hesitation was due to financial issue on my side

I am pretty sure that that if I said ''ridiculous'', it was in a good way...if I say ''thats a ridiculous deal'', I mean that the price is ridiculously low

Here is an exerpt from my build thread on MSF (post #45) about the great deal on the HFS4 :

''Another setback : I was discussing the wiring of the HFS-3 meth injection kit with Richard from Aquamist, and found out that my controller is a version 1, which does not work with the Mazdaspeed direct injection engine

However, Richard being such a good guy, he offered me a HFS-4 v2 at a bargain price (with the green harness for free) since the HFS-4 v3 is out''

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f123/big-turbo-build-cx-7-p-168742/index2.html

As for the flow sensor, hardware issue is something that happens something...like the saying goes ''shit happens''...I work in the Aerospace industry and even with the stringent quality control, hardware issue is bond to happen at one time or another

I made a lot of research before posting here to find the solution to the flow sensor issue, and I can say that this forum is a great source of knowledge...I decided to post here to contribute to the knowledge base...and I didnt come here for a second opinion, I came here for your opinion

Hope this make you change your mind about my intent (I am not a bad guy, and the HFS4 is awesome)

Regards

[torquemaniac]

Richard,

In case you changed your mind about helping out, I did another test and the results seem to say that the flow sensor is working

Here is what I did : I unplugged the HFS4 completely and plugged the HFS3 controller to make a windshield spray test in the hope that the bargraph would illuminate with the spraying

I put the SYS jumper on, and nothing happened...knowing that the HFS3 is not configured for my setting and that the controller may be ''confused'', I unplugged the USER (green) harness with the SYS jumper still on, and then spraying started with the bargraph illuminating (YESSSSSSSSS!)

Seeing that the HFS3 controller did not explode with this test, I did the same thing with the HFS4 controller, and there was spray and bargraph illumination...but the second I plug the USER harness, the bargraph stop working

Here is a video of the test with the HFS4 controller : http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/torquemaniac/media/MVI_1826_zpsiexypaev.mp4.html

Can you make any sense of this?

Again, I am not bashing the HFS4 system in any way, and totally understand that my warranty is passed and will require to buy a new HFS4 controller if the need be

[Richard L]

All you need to do is ask!

It appears the white wirte of the green connected is somehow grounded or the cable is damaged.

Measure the resistance of the white and black wire (unplugged)

[torquemaniac]

Spot on Richard :)

I measured the white and black wire resistance, and I get a reading of 1ohm

Since those wires are unused, they are cut-off at the end (opposite to the connector)...the wires must be touching by a hair

I will take car of the wires and report back

[Richard L]

This is a difficult one for me to track down. I had very little to work on.

[torquemaniac]

I totally agree...who would of thought that the green harness would cause problem with the flow sensor, and what are the chance that the tip of the cut wire would touch!!!

Since the black and white wires of the green harness are not used on the Mazdaspeed setup, could I just remove one of the contact pin in the female part of the connector (rather than play with the wires)?

[Richard L]

Here is the track to cut:

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS4/forum pics/white.gif

[torquemaniac]

The short between the white and black wire have been taken care of...the gauge is back to normal

Thanks for the support Richard...another happy customer :)

[Richard L]

I was just thinking, it is easier to purchase another cable?

[torquemaniac]

New cable involve more work, and I dont think the cable was defective...its probably just the tip of the cut wires that are touching

[Richard L]

If it works with the old cable, no further work is needed.