Newb questions.

[FI_Rubicon]

Hey folks. WI noob here. I have done two superchargers now and have read a lot about spraying but have never implemented it. Now with my latest FI rig, a Pentastar 3.6 Jeep with a TVS supercharger, I want to start spraying.

Here are a couple of questions that I could not figure out on my own....

Is it safe to assume that the HFS-4 can be used on non-DI engines as well?

Can I skip the gauge and use an HFS-2 switch instead with this kit?

If so, can I skip the flow meter wiring and install as well?

[Richard L]

Yes, the HFS4 can be used for the non-DI engines. The H2 dash switch cannot be used on the H4.

[FI_Rubicon]

More noob questions?.

Can I pull out a flow signal? I would like to pull it into my Diablosport Trinity along with the AFR from an Innovative LC-2 that I have and send it to my tuner. I looked at the online user guide and it was not really clear on this.

How far before the throttle body can I place the nozzle? Do you have any tips for tapping into the factory intake ducting? My kit allows me to keep it all.

Any tips on jet sizing as far as a good starting point in the ?1-1.5cc per BHP? range for 50/50? I am probably at about 425HP at the crank. Does style of supercharger or intercooler have an impact on sizing? I am maxing 8.5psi at redline.

Can I divide the flow amongst two jets? I am thinking to add a jet closer to the air box because the tract passes across the top of the radiator in a hot zone under the hood.

[Richard L]

1. Yes you can, the yellow wire of the green harness sends out 0.5 to 4.5V. It is stated on page 23 of the user manual.

2. As far as possible. I do not have any answer for you as I know nothing about your inlet duct.

3. 1- 1.5cc/hp (M50/W50) as stated before

4. You can provided the two location are of similar pressure level. If not, you need a check valve on one of the jets.

[FI_Rubicon]

2. As far as possible. I do not have any answer for you as I know nothing about your inlet duct.

3. 1- 1.5cc/hp (M50/W50) as stated before


Thanks.

2. I will try to post some pics later of what I am working with was far as intake tracts. My IAT sensor was located with the blower so I have that hole/mounting point available in the intake tract. it is ~4-5" before the throttle blade. I may go for an aftermarket tract that I make out of silicone couplers and plastic intake couplers etc. Looks like I can punch through a silicon hose and put a jet adapter and jet there.

edit: With respect to locating the jet ahead of the throttle body, you are suggesting to locate the jet as far before the throttle body as possible? That might work out great, actually. I thought it should be closer to the blade. I can locate the jet right after the air filter as it comes out of the air box. There is a silicon coupler there that I can punch into with one of my intake options. The tract crosses in front of the radiator and picks up a lot of heat there, I suspect. It is also a known engine compartment hot-spot there on a jeep.

3. Pardon me for not being more clear. I was asking in relation to that recommendation. Should I start closer to 1cc/hp or closer to 1.5cc/hp or in the middle? Also, I am guessing at as far as the crank HP number since it has never been on a dyno.

When figuring the HP, should I figure the pre or post-WMI HP numbers?

thanks again!

[FI_Rubicon]

looking at the owners manual (and I could be reading it incorrectly), it seems that there is a jumper to enable WMI based on MAP or injector pulse width but not both. Is this correct (not both)?

In other words, is the HFS-4 a 2D kit?

[Richard L]

- The jumper is for triggering the system - nothing to do with flow
- The P/I-R trimmer biases pressure and IDC signal
- The system is progressive based on the share of the incoming signals.

[FI_Rubicon]

- The jumper is for triggering the system - nothing to do with flow
- The P/I-R trimmer biases pressure and IDC signal
- The system is progressive based on the share of the incoming signals.

Thanks. Maybe my question is really what incoming signals are monitored? Both MAP and Injector together?

[Richard L]

yes, both.

[FI_Rubicon]

Thank you for the responses.

What is the net difference between the HFS3 and HFS4? I understand the difference technically (that it reads in boost and the improvements in IDC reading etc.) but what does it mean to me at the end of the day? Does it use fluid more efficiently? Does it make significantly more HP with the 2D mapping?

FWIW, I am running a TVS style supercharger that peaks out at just over 9psi at redline. The bypass valve gets closed soon and full boost for a given RPM is put out.

Maybe I am asking if there would be as much benefit with the HFS4 and my setup versus the HFS4 and a turbo with twice the boost?

edit: What I really want to do is run the HFS2 for simplicity since this is a jeep and I will not be using the failsafe features. I want to get an idea of what I would be missing by going with the HFS2 over HFS4 in terms of performance and fluid use economy etc.

thanks.

[Richard L]

The reasons for the boost incorporation:

Many turners still use boost only to control flow due to their previous tuning with boost based only system. Unfortunately all modern direct injection engines no longer use boost as a load signal. Actual air flow into the engine is the combination of the throttle angle and boost.

In your case, use the boost for compensating the manifold pressure acting against the spray pressure.

For SC engine the boost is actually useful and it is tied up with RPM. But I still recommend using Fuel Idc as flow control, it is more precise. It take account of the air temperature raise after the SC.

The HFS2 is no longer available, future uncertain.

The HFS3 is more suited for your application. You can configure to floe based on 70% IDC and 30% boost.

[FI_Rubicon]

The HFS3 is more suited for your application. You can configure to floe based on 70% IDC and 30% boost.

Thanks for the response and support.

If I understood correctly, the system is setup by default at 50/50 (IDC/boost) and I would just need to twiddle one of the trim pots to get it to 70/30. DO I have this right?

Pardon me but would the HFS-4 be more suited to my application? Or did I misunderstand the HFS-3? I thought that the HFS-3 would read in IDC *or* boost but not both, whereas the HFS-4 reads in both signals.

Incorporating a 3-way valve based failsafe seems easy, now that I think I understand it. It seems clear how to plumb the vacuum/boost lines. I still need to figure out how to tie it in electrically. Looks like I can use a relay and the HFS controller will provide a ground trigger source to engage the failsafe.

The jeep sees some harsh environments so it would be good to get any tips on setting up maximum filtration for maximum reliability when out in the forest etc.

[Richard L]

The HFS3 can read all the identical signals such as boost and IDC as the HFS4 except you can vary the ratio infinitely. Not everyone wants to pay extra for the HFS4. In your case, you have the best.

Not sure what you meant by maximum filtration.

[FI_Rubicon]

The HFS3 can read all the identical signals such as boost and IDC as the HFS4 except you can vary the ratio infinitely. Not everyone wants to pay extra for the HFS4. In your case, you have the best.

Not sure what you meant by maximum filtration.

Ah, okay. I think I will need to twiddle that knob. So it sounds like I am an HFS-4 candidate.

With respect to maximum filtration.... Since this is a jeep that sees a lot of harsh off road environments, I want to make sure that I setup the system such that I minimize the risk of getting a clogged jet or something while out on the trail.

[Richard L]

The HFS4 has two inline filters, one in-tank and one before the flow sensor.

If you place your tank in the trunk at recommended, how likely the are dusty particles get into the tank?

[FI_Rubicon]

Well, it's a jeep wrangler so there is no trunk per se. With the hard top or soft top on, the cargo area is like an SUV. With the top off, the tank will be exposed more like it would be in the bed of a truck.

Which brings me to another question - how loud or quiet is the pump and is it tolerable in the rear cargo area of an SUV (read: no covered cargo area)?

If the included filters and instructions are adequate here then nothing to worry about, I suppose.

[Richard L]

As long as you keep the cap on and give it a wipe before opening, it should be OK.

[FI_Rubicon]

Okay, thanks. Maybe I will just make a small tarp like cover for it when I am out on the trail to keep the layer of dust off.

[FI_Rubicon]

Hi Richard,

Just a public thanks for all of the help here on the forum, through PMs and in email I ordered a new HFS-4 last night. :) Looking forward to it.