Control board not commanding FAV to open ... not true

[Coilerer]

Hello all,

I recently ordered an hfs4 kit from Jeff at howerton engineering. The kit was functioning perfectly for a few days but last week the kit stopped spraying.

Jeff and I troubleshoot it down to the controller board. There are no clogs in the system. The FAV operates perfectly when supplied with 12v. The control board has no voltage across the FAV outputs when in SYS. The FAV wiring lead is continuous. There are no scorched connectors, traces of components.

What do you guys think could be the issue?

Jeff suggested I email aquamist about it but while I wait on a reply I figured I would lost here.

[Richard L]

This is the correct place to have your aquamist problem diagnosed if you did not purchase your system from the aquamist-direct site.

Post a Hi-res picture of the top and bottom of the circuit board.

[Coilerer]

My dealer told me to email you directly. Changing any of the jumpers or pots did. It resolve the issue.

http://imgur.com/m9LJIU3
http://imgur.com/1JIVPwz
http://imgur.com/HFZNxpH

[Richard L]

In that case, can you tell me your first name so I can track down your email.

[Coilerer]

Daniel.

Thank you.

[Richard L]

Thank you. When did you email me last?

[Coilerer]

25 March.i will re-send it.

[Richard L]

Got it now. Found it in the spam box. sorry.

I will get back to you after a careful look.

[Coilerer]

Thanks so much. It been killing me, spending $1200 and not being able to use it.

[Richard L]

Are you happy with the solution so far?

[Coilerer]

Perfect. Thank you.

[turboguy]

I wanted to piggyback on this, because Im having a very similar issue. System has been running fine for a few months now, (i bought used from a local guy, he had no issues). A couple weeks ago I noticed no spray on the gauge, after inspecting things I figured out it would not spray past the FAV, even with 12v applied. Jeff from Howerton suggested the FAV maybe contaminated/swollen shut, I tried drying it out for a week, ran distilled water through the system, replaced the FAV, it ran for a second or 2 with 12v applied and cut out. Replaced the entire FAV t, ran perfect with 12v applied, ran it for an hour to dial everything in again with no problems, parked the car overnight and went to drive the next morning and no spray again. I am leaning towards a bad relay/or sticking relay but could use some additional advice. Pics of board back and front attached.http://imgur.com/gallery/LfOdf

[Richard L]

It is most likely you have contaminated fluid, laced with hydrocarbon. Send me the controller and FAV and I will examine it for you. We don't charge for repairs, just pay for the return shipping. Hrdrocarbon has a habit of being absorbed into the plastic and rubber parts and slowly releasing back into the system.

Before returning the parts try clean up the tank and all the wetted parts by re circulating 50/50 mix repeatedly. I doubt it is caused by the controller.

questions:
1. Where did you purchase the methanol?
2. What are those tapes around the blue harness?
3. Did the previous user have the similar problem?

PS board looks good.

[turboguy]

Thank you that would be great. And I do not believe it to be the controller either honestly.
I would like to understand more regarding the hydrocarbon contamination so I can prevent it from continuing to occur, if thats the problem. I do not understand how the hydrocarbons would get into my closed system? I ordered the tank brand new from a meth tank supplier in the states, it has never seen anything except distilled water and 50:50 methanol:water mix purchased from a "reputable" source, its called boost juice from snow performance:

from their website...

"Get the most from your water-methanol injection kit with Boost Juice! Boost Juice is a proprietary mix of 49% methanol and 51% distilled water. Manufactured in the U.S.A in a controlled environment to ensure the ratios are exact every time for consistent tuning and performance capabilities. (Case of 4 Gallons)"

I also only have one checkvalved jet which is spraying at the TB, so there should be no contact with any fuel whatsoever.

The fact that it seems the FAV works normally while the car is on after hitting it with 12v directly makes me wonder if the switch in the relay didnt come in contact with solution at some point maybe causing it to stick?

Also to answer your questions:

1. Where did you purchase the methanol? through snow performance-"boostjuice" 50:50 meth:water mix

2. What are those tapes around the blue harness?
The plastic clip/tab at the end of the wire that holds it into the female socket became too pliable and doesnt hold it into the socket tight enough so it would lose connection sometimes, tape is just holding it tight to maintain the connection

3. Did the previous user have the similar problem?
no previous problems reported

[Richard L]

1. boost juice is fine.
2. This should bot be happen, once clicked in, it will take some force to pull it out.
3. What is serial number of the controller.

Are you using our in-tank filter with the brand new tank from a third party source?

[turboguy]

As for the trunk harness, I think the clip of the connector was bent on installation, which is why it will not hold into place correctly.

Yes I was using the aquamist in tank filter, and I have been using a third party tank, and as Ive begun to really run through the list of issues, I am starting to believe it may be the tank. Specifically a sealant I used on the outside of the tank adapter as the hole drilled there was not perfect and caused a small leak. It is formulated of 50% Toulene, which from my brief research is a hydrocarbon... so potentially my issue. I will have to replace the tank and see if that solves the issues.

Do you have a recommendation on tanks? I see you sell a 10L dual tank, does this come plug and play with the in tank filter and level sensor already installed?

My plan for now:
1) I ordered 100% meth from Torco, I will soak the valve for a few hours in the 100% meth to draw out any hydrocarbon contamination. Then let it dry out for a couple days.
2) Replace my tank
3) Purge the system with distilled water, then 100% methanol
4) Reinstall FAV and ensure its no longer swollen and everything runs correctly
5) Reintroduce new batch of 50:50 boost juice, hopefully all is solved then

[Richard L]

good plan, please update.

[turboguy]

good plan, please update.

No luck:
-Installed new twin tanks
-Flushed the entire system with almost 6 L distilled water and another 3 liters of 100% methanol
-Soaked the water level float in methanol and dried out before reinstalling on the new tank
-Bought new tank adapter and in tank filter for new tank
-Let 2 fav t's soak in methanol for over 4 hours and dry out for a couple days
-Reinstalled FAV and it locked right up, no flow, swapped to other FAV, same thing no flow.
-Tried 12v power with SYS jumper and no click, no flow for either FAV

I think I'll have to send them to you to take a look at or just buy a third FAV? Not sure what else to do except troubleshoot the relay to the FAV, not even sure how often they go bad? Any other thoughts?

[Richard L]

I think sending the controller and FAV is the best way forward.
We never charge for repairs

Richard

[turboguy]

I think sending the controller and FAV is the best way forward.
We never charge for repairs

Richard

Alright will do, is the address under contact us on the website the correct one?

[Richard L]

Shipping address:
(write "return to manufacturer for repair" or tax will be charged. Value is $10)

ERL Ltd
Iroko house
Bolney Ave. Peacehaven
East Sussex BN10 8HF
England
T: +44 1273 581007
F: +44 1273 581555

[turboguy]

Alright shipped out today, should be there Friday. Thank you for doing this, pretty stand up guy to try and fix the issue first hand, rare these days. In the package are:

(2) FAV Tees, one was just purchased from Howerton a few weeks ago, worked for a day then wouldnt flow the following day. The other is the original from when I bought the kit.
(1) Relay that theFAV Tee goes into, Im still suspicious about this piece being the problem
(1) Flow sensor turbine assembly-my belief is that this is functioning fine
(1) HFS-4 Controller unit-again I believe this to be fine

Looking forward to hearing what you find out, and again thank you for taking a look.

[Richard L]

Have received and checked your controller yesterday, I cannot track down any fault.

Can you tell me where the pump is installed? Send me a few picture of your install.

[Richard L]

Thanks so much. It been killing me, spending $1200 and not being able to use it.

I wish you would posted here that your system is now up and running perfectly.
It was all along the setting was not done correctly after some 80 email exchanges of technical support.

I am sorry our dealer has not given you adequate support, your system was purchase from them in January 2017.

One reason why we have rolled back all system sales back to aquamist direct.

A good word or two wouldn't go amiss.

[turboguy]

Have received and checked your controller yesterday, I cannot track down any fault.

Can you tell me where the pump is installed? Send me a few picture of your install.

This is the only pic I have since I pulled it out to install the new tanks.
https://imgur.com/gallery/zqRV2
The pump mounted directly under the tank. This is obviously in the trunk. I still sort of feel like it might be the relay, if theres nothing wrong with the favs

[Richard L]

More findings:

1. The 2x FAV Tee is good electrically.
2. One of the two coil is open circuited, the other is perfect
3. The flow sensor is good except the disc filter is 50% blocked (unusually dirty). New filter is now in place.
4. The restrictor is OK.

The controller is good. Did you install the aquamist intank filter?
I will check the flow the the FAVs and examine the internals on Monday.


http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/Turboguy/filter.jpg

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/Turboguy/parts.jpg

[turboguy]

More findings:

1. The 2x FAV Tee is good electrically.
2. One of the two coil is open circuited, the other is perfect
3. The flow sensor is good except the disc filter is 50% blocked (unusually dirty). New filter is now in place.
4. The restrictor is OK.

The controller is good. Did you install the aquamist intank filter?
I will check the flow the the FAVs and examine the internals on Monday.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/Turboguy/filter.jpg

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/Turboguy/parts.jpg

Posted just now regarding the pump setup, the only pic I have anyway, but yes I did have the in tank filter installed. Any other thoughts on what would make the disc filter so dirty?
Glad the other pieces are checking out alright for the most part and again I appreciate you looking through everything.

Couple pics from engine install:
https://i.imgur.com/0QbdapN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jxq0MFk.jpg

[Richard L]

I would like you to take the in-tank filter out and examine the cleanliness. If the in-tank filter is as bad as the FAV disc filter, I would expect this is where your problem was.

[turboguy]

I would like you to take the in-tank filter out and examine the cleanliness. If the in-tank filter is as bad as the FAV disc filter, I would expect this is where your problem was.

Replaced it with a brand new one when I installed the new tanks, then went through flushing/purging the system with 100% methanol from torco, hooked everything back up, saw flow on the sensor for a split second when I jumped SYS but nothing ever came out of the other side of the FAV. When I would unhook the 6mm side hose of the fav there would be spray from the backed up pressure since it was unable to flow through the FAV

[turboguy]

Current set up
https://i.imgur.com/D2j3gho.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/I0BFkVE.jpg

[Richard L]

As I said earlier. I will check the internal of the FAV on Monday. Both. The coil failsafe was the original cause.
Remind me what car and jets you are using.

[turboguy]

As I said earlier. I will check the internal of the FAV on Monday. Both. The coil failsafe was the original cause.
Remind me what car and jets you are using.

Audi S5 and a 1.0mm -500cc jet spraying at the TB

[Richard L]

Have you checked the jet for blockage before shipping all those parts back to me? That is the most obvious step to do first. Judging from the condition of the filter of the FAV inlet , worth checking the jet and the in-tank filter for blockage.

Can you send a a picture of the in tank filter? unless it is all new since you changed over to DI tank.

[turboguy]

Have you checked the jet for blockage before shipping all those parts back to me? That is the most obvious step to do first. Judging from the condition of the filter of the FAV inlet , worth checking the jet and the in-tank filter for blockage.

Can you send a a picture of the in tank filter? unless it is all new since you changed over to DI tank.

Yes I did look over the filter and nothing stood out to me as far as it being clogged and yes I have since tossed it when I switched tanks and setup, I also checked the jet during the first stages of trying to figure everything out and when I got the replacement FAV from Howerton the jet was spraying perfect everything was working for a day, I went and redialed in the flow, threshold etc... then parked the car over night and the next day it was back to things not flowing again.

[Richard L]

All tests are completed, every part is working fine (including controller. Only the FAV was broken it doesn't look very healthy from outside either.
We need to look at the installation now after you reinstated all the components.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/Turboguy/FAV coil.jpg


where you want me to return to? Pm me.

[turboguy]

Great news and thank you again! PM sent

[Richard L]

Please update what the actual issue is on your system now that we have ruled out the equipment.

[turboguy]

Please update what the actual issue is on your system now that we have ruled out the equipment.

Will do, soon as I have everything put back together! And thank you again!

[turboguy]

Please update what the actual issue is on your system now that we have ruled out the equipment.

So it must've been the FAV/relay... hooked everything back up last night, didnt change any of the cables etc.. and it's working perfectly again. Thank you very much for your help, glad its solved now!

[Richard L]

It will be the FAV coil. It could be damaged by prolong SYS test.

[ridindirty]

I think my kit is 3 years old. Not looking for warranty or anything like that. I just want my system back. The car set for about 5 mths while I built my new spec motor. I'm using 100% meth so I don't know if soaking it will help and my theory is to just replace it once it starts giving you issues.
I checked nozzle and its not plugged
I pumped check valve and it works
I put system in test and and no flow.
I took the cover off the FAV plugin and have 100mv then 200mv then 300mv all the way to 900MV and then it goes back to 100mv and starts over.
I would like to just purchase the complete assembly but willing to send back if you want to test for your own knowledge.
I purchased this kit from Howerton for a mini cooper R56.
I sent an email about 2 weeks ago and no reply, I searched and found they only work out issues on here.

[Richard L]

you can just purchase the FAV Tee if you suspect the fAV is the cuprite.
Or send the controller, gauge and FAV assembly for a health check, we don't charge for repairs.

[ridindirty]

Well being the voltage is in mv coming from the controller I think that is the issue. Can I put 12vdc on the FAV to see if it will flow or will that hurt it ?

[Richard L]

yes you can

[ridindirty]

can you give me the replacement part numbers I should order for the controller and fav ?
Is shipping really 3-5 weeks ? Is that counting to USA or is it even more ?

[Richard L]

only the kits are subject to 3-5 weeks,

[ridindirty]

I'm traveling and trying to figure out shipping, how long would it take to reach USA, Phoenix Arizona if I went with Priority shipping ?

[Richard L]

3-5 days with fedex priority, one day sooner than standard fedex. In the general scheme of things, priority option is pointless if the manufacturing lead time is 3-5 weeks.

[Richard L]

Other than the kits, we have 99% of the replacement parts in stock at all times.

[ridindirty]

Thanks for all the help, I will load up the shopping cart and get the parts coming.