STI project car

[meetmrglock]

i'm toward the end of the planning stage of my '04 sti project. i've got a crawford 2.6l stroker shortblock, a hydra and gt35r kit from element and supporting parts on the way. when everything is installed i'll be driving it down to md to have phil tune it.

i look forward to help on adding water injection to my mod plan, which includes an aps dr750 fmic, walbro f pump, tumber valve delete, perrin fuel rails and pe850 injectors.

i'm honored to be the first to post in the new "car specific" section. my thanks to charged performance for providing the forum.

bruce chapman

[Richard L]

Subaru sti is the most tuned car on this planet - avaiable in the UK for six to seven years (2L) and US for the last two years (2.5L).

There are more than just a few tuners in the US using various tools and they all get pretty impressive results. It would be nice to know how you have arrived on this particular route. A good introduction to your specific car would set the scene for the discussions to follow. It will be particularly interesting for me because water injection is being considered.

[meetmrglock]

Subaru sti is the most tuned car on this planet - avaiable in the UK for six to seven years (2L) and US for the last two years (2.5L).

There are more than just a few tuners in the US using various tools and they all get pretty impressive results. It would be nice to know how you have arrived on this particular route. A good introduction to your specific car would set the scene for the discussions to follow. It will be particularly interesting for me because water injection is being considered.

thanks for your interest richard. my current mods:
'04 b/g: ap stg 2/93, typhoon, perrin c pulley, kw v3 coilovrs, krtby ss, cobb: tbe, f&r ar bars, ss b lines, hotchkis endlks, rep f strut brace, pagid blues, all motuls fluids, w'line diff/steer bsh

this is a brief recap of the planning process as posted in the sti forums. you'll notice i referenced this site as well:

shortblock - buy all accounts, crawford builds a great shortblock that is more than capable of supporting the kind of whp this engine will produce and the extra displacement will give me a bit more low end grunt.

turbo - i considered the usual list of turbo options. if i had any thoughts about the sr55, ese's experience completely purged that thought from my consciousness. kingpin's gt35r project (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=705831) really caught my attention and it got me to consider something other than a stock mounted turbo. when i discussed it with quirt crawford, he thought the gt35 was too much turbo and suggested the gt30r. that argument was countered by mike at kingpin and phil at element, who both convinced me the gt30r is too small and sold me on the gt35r. they were both certain that the slightly longer spoolup of the 35 would be a non-issue; further offsetted by the additional low end torque of the 2.6. i'm sticking with the stock header (port matched and heat wrapped) for this reason, also.

i put off deciding exactly which gt35r kit i would get until i settled on engine management.

engine management - i ordered cobb's st long before this plan started to crystalize. i received one of first one's shipped and promptly returned it as totally inadequate for a project that is this ambitious. again, i considered all of the piggyback options, including a blend of ecutek and utek. then i started looking closely at hydra (http://elementtuning.com/technical/element_ems.htm), which put me in conversation with phil grabow. this proved to be a pivitol moment because phil is clearly an orchestra conductor who is about to assemble his own parts orchestra.

as luck would have it, element is in pre-production with their own gt35r kit. the advantages of having phil tune his own kit with his own standalone ecu is pretty obvious. the decision to take the car to maryland to have him tune it was a no-brainer. then i started looking into water injection.

water injection - first, cudo's to bboy who has been the biggest provider of useful information and an advocate of water injection in this forum. i started researching everything i could at nasioc on the subject and found this forum dedicated to it (http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php). for those who may be less familiar with it, like race gas, wi keeps the combustion temps cooler so you can use more aggressive timing and higher a/f ratios. think race gas at the price of water,

i raised the subject of an aquamist system with phil, already knowing that hydra is designed to accommodate water injection, with safeguards for the risks associated with it. not only is wi within hydra's/phil's capabilities, phil is right now working with aquamist (the company) to develope a hydra-specific wi system, which, as luck would have it, will be available at about the same time that element's gt35r kit will be ready. spooky, eh?

in summary - a lot of this project will be resting on phil grabow's shoulders. i think he can handle it.

[Richard L]

I am slowly absorbing the contents of your post. It appears that you have the perfect tool to implement WI injection and I am looking forward to discuss the installation of the hardware, hydra etc - it will be a very long and involved project - I am looking forward to carry on.

I am work with Phil and we are going to iron out all the little problems first - hardware logistics as more WI hardware arrives at Phil's place.

[meetmrglock]

I am slowly absorbing the contents of your post. It appears that you have the perfect tool to implement WI injection and I am looking forward to discuss the installation of the hardware, hydra etc - it will be a very long and involved project - I am looking forward to carry on.

I am work with Phil and we are going to iron out all the little problems first - hardware logistics as more WI hardware arrives at Phil's place.

no one's more excited than i am, richard. i can't think of two people more qualified to work out the details than the two of you.

[Richard L]

While we are waiting for the system to arrive at Phils place and him getting to know it.

Can we start work on the location of the system components? The most important part of the system is the water supply to the pump from the tank - this is by far the section that causes most trouble in the past. It doesn't matter if you haven't got the system yet.

1) Are you planning to put the water tank in the trunk?
2) What kind of tank you might like to use.
3)Battery location.
4) Water jet loction.

[meetmrglock]

While we are waiting for the system to arrive at Phils place and him getting to know it.

Can we start work on the location of the system components? The most important part of the system is the water supply to the pump from the tank - this is by far the section that causes most trouble in the past. It doesn't matter if you haven't got the system yet.

1) Are you planning to put the water tank in the trunk?
2) What kind of tank you might like to use.
3)Battery location.
4) Water jet loction.

1)2) i'm going to use the sti intercooler spray tank that's already in the trunk. i'd also consider adding an auxillary tank if it's necessary.
3) will an aquamist system require the stock battery to be relocated? i was already considering replacing the stock battery with a smaller aftermarket battery (braille?) and moving it to the trunk.
4) correct me if i'm wrong but the injector location should be just ahead of the throttle body.

[Richard L]

1)2) i'm going to use the sti intercooler spray tank that's already in the trunk. i'd also consider adding an auxillary tank if it's necessary.

I think the sti tank is more than good enough to do the job. It holds about 4 litres of water? I think it also have a priming pump incorporated. It goes from the tank to the engine bay/screen bulkhead area via a 6mm rubber hose.

will an aquamist system require the stock battery to be relocated? i was already considering replacing the stock battery with a smaller aftermarket battery (braille?) and moving it to the trunk.

If you are locating the aquamist pump on the cavilty of the firewall area (where the washer wiper motor is located), then you can leave the battery exactly where it is.


4) correct me if i'm wrong but the injector location should be just ahead of the throttle body.
Ideally, you should locate the jet some distant away from the throttle but if you have a TMIC, you may consider putting one samll jet in front and one after the intercooler.

I have a suggestion - If the priming pump can be integrated with the system2d (via a repeater unit) so it actives when the map pump is working, you can save a great deal of work in running a long hose from the truck to the front of the car.

The existing intercooler sprayer can be activated noprmally but this time it trigger a second valve that releases pressurised water from the aquamist main manifold system.

You may need to change the factory water spray nozzle to a smaller aquamist type since the water pressure is no longer at 3 bar-ish but 7 bar.


http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gallery/chapman/sti-location.jpg

[meetmrglock]

If you are locating the aquamist pump on the cavilty of the firewall area (where the washer wiper motor is located), then you can leave the battery exactly where it is.

i think i like the battery location better. it seems more accessible there. i'll probably get a lightweight batterry and more it to the trunk.

Ideally, you should locate the jet some distant away from the throttle but if you have a TMIC, you may consider putting one samll jet in front and one after the intercooler.

we'll be installing an aps dr750 fmic.

I have a suggestion - If the priming pump can be integrated with the system2d (via a repeater unit) so it actives when the map pump is working, you can save a great deal of work in running a long hose from the truck to the front of the car.

The existing intercooler sprayer can be activated noprmally but this time it trigger a second valve that releases pressurised water from the aquamist main manifold system.

You may need to change the factory water spray nozzle to a smaller aquamist type since the water pressure is no longer at 3 bar-ish but 7 bar.


i just spoke with phil grabow concerning your progress working on the "hydra/aquamist" project . he was really confident that all of the details would be worked out shortly. with the switch to a fmic i'm going to guess that the spray switch could be dedicated to that pressure valve.

i just posted this on the sti forum. i will share it with you.

the crawford s4 shortblock will be here on my birthday next week. how cool is that.

the following parts are ordered (or will be in the next day or so):
phil's gt65 kit
hydra,
aquamist water injection kit w/display
turbosmart bov
turbosmart e-boost
perrin 816 cc modified injectors (it's possible we may do 1000cc injectors)
perrin fuel rail kit
walbro fuel pump(s)
aps dr750 fmic
koyo radiator
cusco engine and tranny mounts
rps turbo max clutch
b&b exhaust
gt spec subframe and ladder braces
seibon pd (reverse) scoop

i'm still deciding whether to do the tgv delete ourselves, farm it out or do a core swap for a crawford unit. i also decided not to do anything with the heads at this time. i'll be using a base map from phil to break-in the motor before taking it down to md for formal tuning. any head work will complicate the situation.

i should be rolling by this time time next month.

[Richard L]

I think the battery tray option is best, fully accessable.

Can you get a smaller battery and mount the water injection cluster in front of it? I have a picture here to show someone has tried it with great effect.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/rescr/gallery/scooby/mark/twin-pump.jpg

[Richard L]

Good news,

Phil and I have just managed to successfully completed the Aquamist/Hydra link, it is now communicating - Phil will now move onto the next stage.

:D :D :D

[MZM]

Phil and I have just managed to successfully completed the Aquamist/Hydra link, it is now communicating - Phil will now move onto the next stage.

Richard would you please comment on the wiring between the Hydra and Aqua? I am proceeding with this setup on a MY93 GC conversion using a MY04 STi engine. Since the harnesses are custom, there are no unused wires available for the Aqua connection, so I would like to put one or two in place now for the upcoming water injection install.

Is there a rough draft schematic available? Thanks.

Mike McBride

[Richard L]

Phil and I have just managed to successfully completed the Aquamist/Hydra link, it is now communicating - Phil will now move onto the next stage.

Richard would you please comment on the wiring between the Hydra and Aqua? I am proceeding with this setup on a MY93 GC conversion using a MY04 STi engine. Since the harnesses are custom, there are no unused wires available for the Aqua connection, so I would like to put one or two in place now for the upcoming water injection install.

Is there a rough draft schematic available? Thanks.

Mike McBride

The hydra's output pin is not clear, but phil is working on an interfacing loom. I don't have any involvement on the pin selection.

The aquamist/hydra combination will be very powerful since the hydra will control the water map and also modifiy the timing depending on the water flow mapped and detected - it is the first time we have full control over the entire engine management.

I have been trying for many years to work with third party controllers makers and none has show enough interest or some systems just don't have the capability to do what we are trying to achieve.

Please be patient and let us do all the ground work first so you don't have to become a guinea pig in the name of progress. At present, we are trying to produce a 500whp Subie on pump fuel that run less consumption than a fuel dump engine running 300whp. The goal is not that far away.

[chucktoo]

Actually after Phil finishes the first car we are shooting for more like 600 whp later this Fall.

[meetmrglock]

Actually after Phil finishes the first car we are shooting for more like 600 whp later this Fall.

my project
(http://www.imprezawrxsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23326&page=1&pp=20)
should have its maiden start-up next week. i expect to break it in over the next 2-3 weeks - installing element's aquamist interface and heading down to phil for a proper dyno tuning.

if all goes well, my s4/gt65 rotated/aquamist project should produce very close to 600 whp by the end of summer.

[chucktoo]

Great -

So there are atleast 2 cars for Phils to do with bulit engines GT-35R or better turbos and AquaMist ?

This will get very interesting over the next few monrths.

I expect Hydra with AquaMist will become the new standard for high performance- can't really do this with any other ECU .

[Richard L]

Great -

So there are atleast 2 cars for Phils to do with bulit engines GT-35R or better turbos and AquaMist ?

This will get very interesting over the next few monrths.

I expect Hydra with AquaMist will become the new standard for high performance- can't really do this with any other ECU .

With full cooperation form Phil and the exceptional processing power of the Hydra, a new generation of mean machines are no longer a dream.

So far there is nothing comes close to the Hydra. With the vast tuning experience of Phil, it is just a matter of time when he can offer something unique to the tuning world.

In my part, it is a real breath of fresh air to work with phil.

Has anyone has heard of the Chrysler's Neon SRT4 that has all the makings of new generation of factory equipped tuning tool. It has a switch on the dash (HOM-high octane mode) that will allow switching between pump fuel and race fuel. If knock is detected, The ECU will automatically retrun to stock timing. It also has a user adjustable boost control.

There is a dedicated discussion on a SRT Form that involove replacing the racing fuel with water injection - makes good sense and reading.
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=189

Just hope that this will start a new trend for other performance car manufacters. Here is a link for someone using an aquamist with great success:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=695

[MZM]

Progress moves on ........ 600 hp, wow. Truth be told, I would be very very happy with reaching my goal of 400 with matching torque delivered to the tires. My chassis is not to far from its limit now at 300. Having 600 would be well beyond my reflex ability to drive the car on the track.

Thank you Richard for the reply. Your work ethic must be very high for you to make a living and also answer all the email items you address.

I have been in contact with Phil and am waiting.

'Gday

Mike M