Smart injection
 

Hello,
I'm very interested in installing an Aquamist3 system on my Smart fortwo using a 50/50 mix. I am having a hard time determining my injector sizes and therefore nozzle size. The figures I've found about my injectors(148cc/min) do not seem to be credible when compared to an injector size calculator which suggests a flow rate of around 280cc/min per injector would be required for my engine to work as it does.

The 698cc engine currently runs a revised intake, filter, plumbing, bigger turbo and motorsport type exhaust and remap. Peak torque is generated at around 3500 and maximum hp is dynoed at around 97hp at 6200rpm. 3.8bar fuel regulator, Maximum boost is 1.49bar. The car is OBD II
The car has a small intercooler stuffed in above the engine that relies on a small scoop and fan. It is possible to hit manifold air temps of 70C in a very short time, heat soak is a big problem.

Ideally I would like to experiment with pre turbo injection with an eye to perhaps doing away with the intercooler altogether? The problem this presents is the tiny size of the turbo and being able to position a nozzle close within the tapered TIK without it being a huge obstruction; I have seen a beautiful picture on this forum of a subminature injector posted by Richard L.

Perhaps I would be better off using a two jet system as evaporating everything pre turbo may be problematic, that is if I can get nozzles small enough for my meager engine?
Using one post intercooler and one pre turbo but about a foot away from the turbo (some blade erossion is not a big issue as they can be changed for a lot less than the big boy's ones, lol.

The goal is for a full time on boost system with fail safe and mapping and hopefully to rebuild the engine with greater compression and improved components to take maximum advantage of the injection after a more complete understanding of it has been gained.


Any help welcome, please bear in mind I'm not a rocket scientist like some of you but learn quickly.

Cheers!

Lucian

Re: Smart injection
 

Here's some photos of the ducting and intercooler.

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...eb49d017a5.jpg
Here's the intercooler with stock ducting (replaced with silicone on mine)



http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/..._MCC_SMART.jpg
The intercooler has plastic tanks so perhaps a nozzle could be tapped into the outlet pipe. The mounting means that any condensate would collect in the plastic part of the intercooler.



http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...hr-2-52773.jpg
Here is the Stock TIK compared to the silicone one, the large end connects to a 90 degree bend into the filter, perhaps the best place for pre turbo injection?




http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...759f3b8e0b.jpg
Throttle body and top of intercooler, you can only see it's fan. Forge intercooler pipes. You can also just see the blue 'TIK' below and where it connects to the airbox on the left.



http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...c0d695b28c.jpg
TIK connection with turbo. You can also see the first intercooler pipe exiting the turbo.


Not my car, but the blue hoses show up better than black ones, you can see how tight everything is and how the intercooler is not in a good location. some people put a larger intercooler in but I think it is just buying time before heat soak at the cost of lag because there is not enough airflow to cool the one it's got let alone a bigger one.

Some turbo specs,
The induction side:
Inlet 27mm inside bore, 32mm outside diameter.
Outlet 21mm inside bore, 27mm outside diameter.

Exhaust outlet Id. 40.5mm


Cheers!

Lucian

Re: Smart injection
 

The 50kg's of go, 2hp for every kilo in my case!

Stock

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...esCAC5I7N4.jpg

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...e-Building.jpg

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/.../3992jb_20.jpg

In the last one you can see some of the air ducting for the intercooler, bear in mind this is crammed in against the firewall.

Re: Smart injection
 

Lucian,

Good grief, a lot of hard work. Very cute engine (size wise). I will make a more detail stody of this later. Thanks for posting.

Re: Smart injection
 

Cheers Richard, great talking to you, really looking forward to this project.

I think I may also require a MAC valve to realise the failsafe.

Lucian

Re: Smart injection
 

Is your boost controller is a mechanical type?

Re: Smart injection
 

It does have a boost solenoid.

Here's a link to a page on the setup of it, this site is the best online source for Smart info.

http://www.evilution.co.uk/580

Cheers!

Re: Smart injection
 

Here's some pictures of my tiny turbo, a mini Garrett, as you can see the manifold is integral to the turbine housing and it has a fast warm up channel for the cat.
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...11-5001Shh.jpg

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...7211-5001S.jpg

This is actually the mid range tubo for the early Smart range, some high spec Brabus used one of the same dimensions externally but with ceramic coatings on some surfaces and internal differencesalong with a watercooled chargecooler, the lower spec version has a smaller induction inlet and compressor and smaller exhaust outlet.

Re: Smart injection
 

Like to take it one step at a time. On the picture showing the air filter. I am a bit confused, there are several blue hoses there. Should I be looking at the hose with "FORGE" logo? To the right hand side, what is that assembly?

Re: Smart injection
 

I dont have a picture with the airfilter?
The long blue 'forge' tapered hose with the three little ports is the TIK, it replaces the black plastic one in the picture, the items that have been colourised are related to the wastegate and breathers.

The two intercooler pipes in some of the pictures have also been replaced with blue forge pipes too.

I'll get a picture of the airbox and the 90 degree bend.
Cheers!

Re: Smart injection
 

TIK? sorry, not familiar with this term.

Richard

Re: Smart injection
 

Sorry, it is a Smart term for their relatively straight, long and tapered intake pipe between the air filter and turbo inlet, designed for some ram/velocity effect I suppose? Smart made a 45kw, 61kw and 74kw versions of this pipe for the three different versions of the engine, each one having a slightly different turbo. The Forge TIK is generally considered to be equal or better than the stock 74kw version as it has fewer bends with smoother radiuses and is straighter, it does suffer a slight step at the inlet that the stock one does not.

Re: Smart injection
 

My engine started as a 45kw (61hp) model, these were prone to premature faliure, believed to be caused by the lack of an oil cooler, use of inferior oils (fully synthetic is a must), oil change intervals that were too long, piston design (possibly), high gears that are way too high in ratio and result in serious lugging by poor drivers and also harsh city use.
Mine has had a thermostatic oil cooler added.

Smart had oil coolers, shorter service intervals, Shorter top gear ratios and possibly different pistons in the higer spec engines (Brabus & Roadster) and these were not so prone to faliure despite making 20-40hp more! 33-66% more hp!!!

Re: Smart injection
 

The power level increase from 45, 61 and 74kw, are they being offered by the factory?

Re: Smart injection
 

Hi Richard, yes that is correct, the 74kw version was 'Brabus' only and had sodium filled valves and water cooled charge cooler, improved turbo with different wastegate actuator, bigger injectors, exhaust and TIK and different cam and map.
These engines have been tuned to 120hp, but then they are very stressed at 171hp per liter!!! (The stronger wastegate allows overboosting beyond 1.5bar).

Interestingly the (Suprex) engine was an offshoot of Smarts abandoned Hybrid program and the brains behind it (Swiss Auto) have since developed a successful hybrid powerplant along these lines.

Re: Smart injection
 

Thanks for the run down on options.

Just going back to your project, how far are you going to push yours up to? Please remind me the power level you have achieved up to now.

Re: Smart injection
 

My car has been uprated to 97hp at 6200, Overboost is 1.49bar. It has a very flat torque curve over it's peak at about 3500rpm.

It will be dyno tuned by a tuner who uses methanol and water himself (he had nothing but good things to say about Aquamist, his first question was what I was doing about a failsafe, so that's a good sign ;)). So I'll be able to post some figures here, before and after, etc.


Primarily at this point I'm interested in controlling my intake temps, as an example today with an ambient temp of 1C my MAT was about 20C very light cruising and then 40C with less than a minute of medium ragging!

I'd like to see what effect addressing this and also leaning out the mixture under boost will have and if anything can be gained while not stressing it much more than it was without injection, it'll be interesting to see what can be done with the timing.

The goal is a full time on boost system at the moment, but in the future depending on the results of this experiment, I'm thinking of rebuilding it with higher compression and better rods, pistons,etc, in order to best use the anti knock properties in a full time system strong enough to allow further developments.

Cheers!

Re: Smart injection
 

Ps. I think that I may have issues with my spark strength, time will tell and there are off the shelf solutions available should it arise. It is a three coil Six sparkplug setup, with simultaneous spark for both plugs in each cylinder.

Re: Smart injection
 

I could use some help regarding where I should put my methanol/water tank.

I would ideally like to use a 4+liter container, however this will not be possible outside the cockpit (the windshield washer tank is in the front and the engine in the back).


Would it be best to use a racing type fuel cell with external venting?
I will not be using more than a 50/50 mix.
Will this present plumbing/fitting problems?

Cheers!

Re: Smart injection
 

Got some time today to work on your system, jury duty was finished for me yesterday.

1. Building a low flow valve and bench test.
2. Changing Flow sensor turbine profile to suit low flow.
3. Reflash controller for a lower flow table.

All went well considering our system normally flow 5-10 times as much. The rest of the system are ready but had to leave early due to snow storm. So it will have it be next week for shipping.


Anyway. Failsafe is standard with the system. Can you tell me what kind of boost controller is used, mechanical or electronic?

My first target is to lower your temperature rise on load. You may need more water/methanol than we first calculated. The recommended ratio is for less harsh operating condition than yours. Rapid temperature rise as described by our phone conversation indicated you have highly stressed engine.

We shall see how WI performs, will be very interesting. If you have spark blown out problem you can increase methanol concentration.

Re: Smart injection
 

Hi Richard, that's excellent news, very exciting. It seems like such a good candidate for injection. Really impressed by your tailoring things special for the micro motor. I will get as much before and after data from the tuner as possible.

I know of a Scandinavian who has raised the compression in one of these engines (took .5mm out of a possible 2mm off block with no valve interference) in order to experiment with E85 and the economy aspects of it. He had problems with the spark, this has also been problematic with some brave/foolish(?) enough to venture in to NOS (never heard of it working for long in a Smart, lol).

No hurry on the shipping, still got to get a tank, methanol, etc, and we are snowed under too!

Cheers again!

Re: Smart injection
 

I must admit this is by far the more challenging customisation I have done over the years. making the system more flow twice as much is much easier. I am looking forward to see how well the system performs.

There are two things that affects the sparks. High cylinder pressure and flash point of the fuel. In cold weather, E85 could be a real pain especially the compression ratio is raised.

It is less of a problem in your case as you only need to introduce spray when the engine is under load and cylinder temperature is quite hot. Can you adjust your spark gap? If so, you can run higher wmi ratio, allowing more cooling for power increase.

Re: Smart injection
 

How low are you thinking here Richard on flow? Would dropping pump pressure be easier?

Re: Smart injection
 

Dropping pressure will reduce flow for sure.

My problem is detecting the low flow with the same turbine designed for detecting flow in excess of 2 litres per minute.

Turbine mass (inertia) and bearing friction will affect linearity at low flow. We do have other turbines with different geometries for low flow applications.

Re: Smart injection
 

You obviously know why I am subscribing, hoping to see what you come up with.

Re: Smart injection
 

If there is greater demand for low flow injection systems, we will scale down the flow sensor components. Problem is, low flow system may not require flow sensor based failsafe.

I have not forgotten the diesel systems.

Re: Smart injection
 

I agree, and I don't really have a way to really use it for the setup I am looking at.

Re: Smart injection
 

The smart project car gives me an opportunity to evaluate the performance of the system under the low-flow conditions.

At the same time, it is interesting to know much water is required for this this highly stressed engine. I have learnt how fast the oil temperature rise under medium load.

Re: Smart injection
 

How does size effect efficiency generally if at all?

Are smaller engines more or less efficient?

I made a motorway journey yesterday, the Ambient temp was 0C, I travelled in 6th gear at 3500rpm, boost .8-9bar (1.5 possible), for several miles. MAT was a constant 38C even with this medium load and an intercooler scoop picking up 0C air at speed.


The car still performs so much better right now than in the summer when it is completely overwhelmed even with our low summer temps!

Cheers!

Re: Smart injection
 

If you can push up more power per litre, you will be on a winning path but you are limited by fuel octane. Higher octane will enable you to run higher compression ratio hence higher incylinder temperature and pressure.

Water/methanol injection will enable you to cross that octane barrier. Water reduces incylinder temperature during evaporation as well as regulating the frame speed, reducing the chance of knock. Superheated steam will also raise the cylinder pressure resulting in significant torque increase. Addition of methanol aids inlet cooling as well as lifting the octane of pump fuel.

Your highly stressed engine is well suited for this, hence I am taking a special interest on this.

Re: Smart injection
 

It is very exciting as I know of no other car with it and I've seen a lot of Smarts, and if it has been done I doubt it has been done properly!

As you say it seems the perfect candidate.

There is a fanatical Smart Roadster community out there and if it works out it may well generate some interest and also with the serious fortwo modders. (I have a Roadster too but I prefer the little fortwo, 100kg lighter, lol).

The car will be going to Smart Times in Switzerland this year, as it went to the one in Antwerp last year, over 1140 were in the parade, lol.

I have seen some intrest on a forum in injection for the very similar 800ccTDI they made.

I have ordered a Brabus 101 wastegate acctuator, it has a stronger spring and allows overboosting beyond 1.5bar (with ECU adjustments). Once things are dialed in with the injection it will be interesting to see what is possible without stressing it much more.

Cheers!

Re: Smart injection
 

I have done a lot of searching for a suitable tank which must be located in the cabin.

Ideally I'd like about 6-8l min capacity because we travel quite a bit.

I also I require a place for the pump next to the tank and then a place for the relay, the location it will go requires that it be somewhat protected, but still allow me to monitor the levels.

The only all in one solution I have found is the Howerton Engineering 2x1 gallon tank and pump enclosure with led and fan, it also comes with a lot of style ;).

Can I order this from you Richard or do I order it direct from them?

Cheers!

Re: Smart injection
 

You need to order the tanks direct from Jeff. It is simpler.

Re: Smart injection
 

Can you explain how do you control boost pressure.

It will be fun to get this car fully integrated with aquamist.

Re: Smart injection
 

Here's a link for a diagram of the engine setup regarding turbo and wastegate, etc:

http://www.evilution.co.uk/145

As you can see a boost control solenoid is operated by the ECU, which is also capable of a safe mode if it detects overboosts beyond a programable level or some other engine fault like a misfire, etc..

To boost above 1.5bar the actuator must be changed too.

Here's a link with more detail of the wastgate control plumbing:

http://www.evilution.co.uk/580

two lambda sensors are used, one in the turbine housing and one post cat.

Re: Smart injection
 

OK, got the answer. Boost a electronically controlled by the ECU via a BCV. Sorry for keep asking the same question
.

Question: How you you alter the boost pressure? I like to know this so I can advise you how to reduce boost in the event of a failsafe activation.

Re: Smart injection
 

I think that the boost pressure is changed by reprograming of the ECU and perhaps an adjustment of the actuator depending how big the change is from stock.
It is using stock OBDII and it is not adjustable 'on the fly' but must be done with a laptop.

I suppose it's failsafe is some sort of map switch or modulation but I have little idea how to trigger that.

Re: Smart injection
 

It?s why I used water-meth on my 660cc turbocharged Kei-car

May not be how much is ?required?, but I used up to 2 gph on the 660cc engine at 2psi without a noticeable drop in power

I honestly think for mine at least, an HFS2v2 would be ample. If the user is trying to expand the range of using the kit, say from 10% TPS to 100% TPS, when does the failsafe need to be active? I am sure that 20% throttle won?t damage the car if .25 gph isn?t flowing.

An install was started but never finished on a diesel here

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/for...bo-diesel.html

Might not hurt to try to contact the owner to see if he/she had any ideas about tank etc.

Re: Smart injection
 

Hi Dust,

Good link, he was going to use the washer bottle, but it is not suitable as it is in the front. Space is a big issue, but if I mount something like the Howerton set up in the rear luggage area it will be within about 1 foot of the two injection points, significantly simplifying plumbing.

The system Richard is putting together has two nozzles, pre turbo and post intercooler. I think he is aiming to have greater capacity than 20% of fuel flow possible, to allow for some experimenting with mix, etc.

I think they have strict emissions in Japan that would make this project a non starter there?

I have had many cars in the past, including Porsches, VW, Jeep SRT-8, Mitsubishi, etc, but few have made me smile so much as this one and the challenge of getting more out of less is perhaps more rewarding than making a big motor go quickly and quite relevant in these 'green' times, lol.

Cheers!

Re: Smart injection
 

400 yen for a liter of methanol and no cheap distilled water at all is why it would be a non-starter. I passed inspection twice with the nozzle uninstalled, once at the government run testing center, and one at a private testing center. The second said nothing about my HID headlights either.

If I have to move back here we WILL be installing an aquamist something on a direct injection diesel, or direct injection kei-car. I'd already have a diesel smart if they were available in Japan. I have an HSV, FAV, fittings, and about 10 nozzles, and don't even have my kit yet.