Nozzle size
Hi!
Long time lurker, first time posting. I bought a brand new HFS-6 over 6 years ago and never installed it. My build took a different direction lately and I think its time to put this kit to use. I'm kinda lost on the nozzle size and location. Before I drill and start making holes I wanna make sure I got this right. A little bit about my car, 2004 G35 coupe twin turbo with Brian Crower 4.2L Stroker. I have ID2000 injectors and I'm planning to run 20-24psi. Piping goes as follow Turbo>Intercooler>BOV>MAF>Throttle body. Can someone please let me know if I got this correctly if I'm planning to run a 50:50 meth/water with 15% to fuel? 2000cc x 6=12000 12000 x 0.15=1800cc 160psi - 20~24=140~136psi. The manual shows the 1.00mm flows at 550cc at 140psi Now this is the part where I'm confused. If I got the above numbers correct, does that mean I need 3x1.00mm nozzles at a total of 1650cc (closest i can get to 1800cc)? If I do need 3, where do they go? After the MAF before Throttle body? Much appreciated. |
Re: Nozzle size
Assuming that you will use 100% duty cycle of your fuel injectors, yes your calculations are correct. But maybe allow 10% to 15% loss of pressure (I don't see this in HFS6 manual, but is explained in HFS3/4 manual).
So if we average the loss of pressure between 10% to 15%, we get an average pressure loss of 12.5%. So that means, 136psi x .875 = 119psi. Or let's just say 120psi. The simplest setup would be to have jets right on the intercooler outlet. I would steer away from installing jet on the throttle body as it is too close to be well distributed across all cylinders. But being a twin turbo setup likes yours (and looks like it is going to make a massive amount of power), maybe you want to try individual port W/M injection? Say for example, 1 per cylinders, and 1 at intercooler exit for total of 7 jets. I don't know if your VQ35 engine is dual throttle bodies or single throttle body version. If dual throttle bodies, you can add 1 jet each on the intercooler outlet pipe leading to the throttle bodies - which means 8 jets in total, along with the individual jets per cylinders of 6. And yeah, you want to place it after the MAF. Unless you want to add a jet pre turbo. And once you have decided on how many jets you want to use, do a 60 seconds SYS test spray into a water containers to make sure each jet delivers the correct amount. |
Re: Nozzle size
I have a VQ35DE which is single throttle body. The idea of individual ports is nice but sounds like a pain lol.
Lets say if decided to go ahead with individual port. Would this setup work? If I decided to up my injection to 20% which would make a total 2400cc needs to be injected. a 0.7mm flows at 350cc at 120psi. So if I install 6 x 0.7mm into each cylinder I'm at 2100cc. Then I will install another 0.7mm onto the intercooler outlet. Total of 2450cc. Does this sound about right? |
Re: Nozzle size
Yes that would be right.
The Aquamist distribution block allows for 6+1 distribution. Exactly the stuff you need. |
Re: Nozzle size
Thanks
One more questions The flow chart in the HFS6 manual does not match the flow chart on the website and in the newer manuals (HFS3/4). Total of three different versions. The one in the HFS6 manual says at 120psi a 0.7mm jet flows at approximately 355~360cc The one in the HFS3/4 manual says at 120psi a 0.7mm jet flows at approximately 245-250cc The one on the website says at 120psi a 0.7mm jet flows at approximately 310~315cc Which one would be correct? |
Re: Nozzle size
Actually you will need bigger jets than what the table says.
This is because you are running 7 jets, and at least 6 of them will requires the use kf checkvalve. Each check valve needs 1bar of pressure to crack open, which means a further loss of pressure. You may want to get the 3000cc/min pump for this. Actually, check out the recent post by RICE RACING in this forum in another section, which shows RB26DETT with 6+1 setup. I am sure he can help you. |
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And remember, the more jets used the more loss of pressure = the lesser each jet will flow out. |
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Re: Nozzle size
I'll check that thread. I think doing all this plumbing might be too much work for me with the time frame I'm working with. I might end up with 2 x 1.2+mm jets (750cc each) on the intercooler outlet and see how that plays out.
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Re: Nozzle size
And please disregard what I said about placing the jet pre turbo.
What I meant was, place the jet after the MAF if you want pre turbo. I don’t know ifbthe MAF will be happy if it is exposed to WM. I don’t think it will as they are sensitive bunch. |
Re: Nozzle size
I saw this on another forum for a VQ35 lower collector and i liked the idea. When you mentioned the distribution block I thought that might be a better way of doing it. But now you mention I need a check valve for each jet which complicates thing a bit more for me.
https://my350z.com/forum/attachments...on-d90-196.jpg |
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That being said, you can just use Devils Own checkvalve between the FAV and distribution block, if Aquamist don’t have one. |
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I was looking at the thread by Rice Racing and I dont think I see a check valve except on the inlet to the distribution block. What you think?
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Re: Nozzle size
Yeah, there is no check valve except for the one to the intercooler
https://i.imgur.com/09wu44Z.jpg |
Re: Nozzle size
Mhmm any reason why at the intercooler and not between the FAV and distribution block?
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Re: Nozzle size
These is a specific direct port custom kit, made for client bespoke to him by Richard to my design requirements to make the power I specified for a WM50 car. I use 'allot' of fluid and its seamless in delivery via the Life Racing F88 based ECU, any rpm any gear, 1 second from 4.5k to 8+k rpm perfect set up.
Jets for direct port engines listed here > http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-5...-applications/ |
Re: Nozzle size
What? 1 second from 4.8K to 8k?
Good lord. |
Re: Nozzle size
K I ordered the jets and fittings to do individual port injection. Let’s hope it’s here in time for tuning.
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Got my kit from Aquamist fairly quick. They are awesome!
Some progress pictures https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1746/4...bd76fd5b_h.jpg https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1744/4...81f23880_h.jpg https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1746/4...b936d22a_h.jpg https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/900/28...2da36c3c_h.jpg |
Re: Nozzle size
I would have tried to centre them as much as possible in line with the fuel injector. Alternativeley consider adding a second set of jets on the opposite site of the fuel injector.
But I see your reasoning as a compromise had to be made due to space constriction and the curvation of the runners prohibiting going back much further. Spraying like this will IMHO likely lead to less than ideal in cylinder distribution. Most spray will pass through one inlet valve only at least during the time the valve is open. Some spray will accumulate in the port while the inlet valves are closed. But there is reason the fuel injector sits in the middle, equal distribution. I am looking forward to reading about how it performs. If you’re not happy with the knock supression, you can always add a second set on the other side and get a more ideal distribution. Jet size might have to be adjusted, of course. Or boost increased.... :-) PS. If the plenum is still off, you could prep for this two sided install by installing just the threaded bungs and plug them. This would safe the effort of having to remove the inlet again in case you would need the second set. |
Re: Nozzle size
I am expecting to see big numbers from this build.
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Re: Nozzle size
I’m trying to figure out which one is the negative on the Injectors and I have no idea how to find out. All six injectors share one wire and the second wire is a different color on every injector. So I’m not sure of the common wire is the ground and the ECU supplies power to control IDC, or if the shared wire is power and they are grounded by the EUC to control IDC. Any idea?
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and the individual ones are grounded by the ECU mate. |
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Does that mean I can connect the -ve wire on the kit to ECU directly? |
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