Custom made WI with a fail save system (see drawing inside)
 

Hi,

My car is a Volvo V40 2.0T standard 160hp after couple changes hp should be near 180 now.
The car will be custom remapped in May. Water injection is for sharper knock timing and cooling.

I will try to write what I have and how I want it:
Car should be 230hp after custom remap and turbo pressure will be near 1.1bar (16psi) which is pretty high for my turbo and that?s why WI will be needed.
I am planning to build a dual stage water injection, first stage will be activated on 0.7bar (10psi) and second stage will be activated on 1bar (14.5psi), both nozzles will be 75cc/m (1GPH)
Water / Ethanol mixture will be 80% water and 20% Ethanol, I tank 98 octane.

I am going to make a custom build system based on a simple Shurflo pump based system. I made a scheme for electrical and mechanical parts, it is made in Photoshop since I don?t have AutoCAD at home so bare with me if it looks bad.

Here the drawing I made, see below for explanation, every comment is welcome to improve it for a save system:

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6...emav4enho9.jpg

Scheme looks complicated but it is actually pretty simple, I will explain what I want after its finished:

• * 2 float sensors in the water tank, one for mid level and it will only activate a LED second one is for low water level, it will directly activate a led inside the car and shut off the pump after certain time, the pump wont run dry since there is still little water in the thank when the low level float sensor is activated.

• * Low level float sensor will also deactivate TCV (Turbo Control Valve) after certain time this way the turbo will run on lower pressure since there is no water system to keep things save.

• * There will be one extra block-off solenoid next to another two (for high and low stage) to prevent water going in to the intake, I have seen couple people having this problem so I decided to go save and use one extra before the other solenoids.

• * To be sure the pressure sensors are on upon turbo pressure, there will be two leds inside the car.

• * A water pressure sensor with a led will show me when there is pressure in the system, same sensor will also deactivate TCV when there is no water pressure while pump runs and a led will be activated to show there is no water pressure.

• * There will be a Shurflo accumulator for keeping nice water pressure.

This is an excellent start.

Would it be possible to add another pressure switch inline (with higher setting) to detect a clogged nozzle?

Thanks Richard,

I already got a adjustable pressure switch for clogged nozzle detection, I was planning for one stage injection that?s why I got one switch, I could get one extra switch and place both switches in each stage after block-off solenoids and before the nozzles for checking clogged nozzles. It is even possible to ad time relays to cut down the turbo pressure if the pressure switch stays on after turbo pressure switches go off.

I read the diagram and did notice the pressure switch you put in. Does this switch do the same job as clogged and no water pressure?

All the rest of your drawing I can understand.

Yes it has normally open an normally closed switch, when there is no pressure it will stay closed (NC) and when it has pressure above the adjusted pressure the other part (NO) will close.

This kind a switch:
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/5372/switchyw6.jpg

See if I can re-phrase the question.

1) Presence of water pressure - about 30-100psi?
2) When the first nozzle is clogged, about 200psi
3) Only the second nozzle is clogged, about 150psi ?

How does one pressure switch setting detects all three conditions?

If the pressures switch is replaced by a pressure sensor, the above conditions can be isolated incdividually.

Am I making sense?

Ok i saw that coming lol :)

Sure you make perfect sense, but I am using the pressure sensor in the drawing above for detecting the pressure only, so if its set very low you can check if there is a pressure or not.

But I already made changes in my plans I am getting one more pressure switch so I can add 2 pressure sensors just before the nozzles. When the pressure switches are set to 80 psi ? it will show me the clogged nozzle when the pump goes out and block-off solenoids shut the water the pressure sensors light the led longer than the pump led because there is still pressure between the nozzle and de solenoids.

A pressure sensor or a flow gauge would be perfect, but I couldn?t find nice cheap alternative for those, it is my daily driver and the car will be mild tuned, if I could afford a fully save Aquamist system I sure would buy one, since I cant do that I am trying to build a cheaper water injection system with almost all thinkable fail systems in there, sure there will be other things to ad but I think what try to build is pretty fail save especially with cutting off turbo pressure when something fails. Building your own design is fun and educative.

Any suggestions are welcome, so if you see anything which needs to be added let me know please. I like to build something nice made by myself.

I am getting a basic set, not from those guys who use Aquamist?s name ;) and half of their price, and get other things like accumulator and pressure switches plus float switches somewhere else.

I already got myself 2 nice float switches and ordered the accumulator.

This is one of the float switches I got, it came from a Mercedes washer fluid tank and I got 2 different lengths, these are specially designed for cars so it wont jump on and off when water level gets lower:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6...lsensorhn2.jpg

This is the accumulator I am getting, its a Shurflo accumulator:
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5...nsievatap3.jpg

I don't have any problem with the rest of the system, well thought out. Just curious how the failsafe works. Now I know that you did not include the clog-jet switch, that is fine. Something you will include soon.

If you are using the float switch, ensure the float will float with methanol. SG=0.79 approximately.

How much are you planning to spend on your system? It appeared you have already invested a great deal of components. They are all good stuff.

I have no objection where you get your part from - I help you to see this through to the end.

I do have one more useful suggestion. Does you pump have a demand switch?

Thank you I really appreciate your help :smile:

I already ordered everything and received couple things, total price is ?470 euro ($617 USD) including shipment costs this also includes one extra 150cc/m nozzle, the second pressure switch for clogged sensors and the time relays (I didn?t order the time relays yet but I know the price). Since I order the parts all over the world the shipment costs where high without shipment it would cost me ?327 euro ($430 USD)

I don?t know if the float sensors will float in 20% methanol mixture but I am pretty sure it will work since they where used in washer tanks and most washers include alcohol.

Yes the pump is an Shurflo 8030 series pump and it has automated pressure switch, and I know what you think, I am going to connect the pump directly so it keeps the pressure in the system with the accumulator, this makes nozzle?s directly spray instead of waiting on the pump building up its pressure. This should be changed on the drawing to but it will require one extra relay to stop the pump when low-level float sensor goes on.

I do have some questions about the nozzle placement, since I use 2 nozzle?s. I will try to show on the IC to TB pipe in below picture with red arrow. I think I will place them with 2cm distance at same spot. This way water would get right to the TB.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2618/nozzlesrt0.jpg

The picture is not from my car I have still a metal pipe waiting to cut like the one on the picture, but I am waiting on the nozzle?s till I cut the pipe.

The accumulator I got is factory pre charged to 20psi, do I need different pressure on the accumulator?

Yes you should increase the bladder pressure --- on my accumulator they had a little data sheet in the box that gives recommendations on the pressure. If I remember correctly the bladder should be pressurized to about the same pressure as the low limit of the expected fluid pressure. I think I charged mine to 85 PSI for a 100 psi system.

If you don't increase the charge pressure the water will squeeze the bladder down so small you will have almost all fluid in the accumulator and no gas in the bladder to help it hold pressure as the fluid is released.

Shurflo may have a data sheet for that accumulator on their web site but I would have to look around for it.

Here is is --- http://www.shurflo.com/pages/Food_Se.../911-378-P.pdf

Larry

Drawing updated, I have to admit it is getting really annoying to edit a full drawing in Photoshop, especially if it?s a mixed mechanical and electrical drawing that needs to be small as possible to fit on a forum page. :shock: :razz:


http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9...emav5envd4.jpg

Extras in this drawing, after first drawing above:
- As I said the pump is constantly on and will work on its own demand switch but will be off when the water tank is empty.
- Shurflo pumps have external wire for demand switch to turn the pump on, I used that for ?pump on? led.
- Turbo pressure switches will turn on first block-off solenoid and second dedicated solenoid for the nozzle.
- There are two water pressure switches just before both nozzles, these switches will show when there is a clogged nozzle if the led stays on while there is no boost.
- The low-pressure water switch will cut turbo pressure if the water pressure is gone (busted water line).

Thanks, I didn?t check the pdf file yet, but from what I understood the accumulator has maximum operating pressure of 125psi, so I will charge it to 110psi and than set pump demand off to 130 and turn on to 110psi. (pump is adjustable between 120 and 140 to turn off)

There is a caution in that doc regarding how to pressurize the bladder!!

You need to do it with no pressure in the liquid lines and at least one open connection.

Larry

Thanks Larry,

I received the accumulator today and it is not the model I ordered, it has male connections unlike the one above picture and it is pre-charged to 30psi. There was also a connection with both sides female in the package.

The model number is 182-200, and this is the manual:
http://www.depcopump.com/datasheets/...n%20manual.pdf

It is better for my setup since it has 2 male connections, it will make the installation easier, I also have Shurflo inline filter, I don?t understand why they designed to install after the pump, but I can screw the pump, filter and accumulator together.

I will post some pictures when I receive the pump all hooked together.
This is my Shurflo filter:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6681/filtertm2.jpg

All pieces are almost complete, I am waiting on one extra water pressure sensor and 2 time delayed relays.

In the picture below you will see a small display, I already have that laying around, with that display I am going to make an flow meter in my system I know what to get for measuring the flow. I have also a oil pressure gauge with a sensor but that will be overkill.

When I receive everything I will start to build the system on a stainless plate and keep everything close as possible, this way it is easier to remove the system when its needed.

This is what I got so far:
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5...ectiebwdp7.jpg

Here I am again, this time with questions.

I got couple things to couple the filter, pump and accumulator together. The couplers are aluminum but anodized (Blue ones on the picture below). Does that go along with methanol? Since aluminum gives problems with aluminum, but it is anodized so it should be ok right?

After assembling these 3 things together, it seems to big and it wont fit anywhere in my engine bay so I decided to make a stainless water tank in the boot and mount the pump and accumulator next to it.
Since the distance gets bigger to the nozzles do I need a primer pump? It is for 2 x 75cc/m @ 100 psi nozzles. I think shurflo pump with accumulator can cover this distance, but I want to be sure.

I also get myself a nice pressure gauge with 16bar (232psi) range, it should be more than enough for this system. Gauge is 40mm and it is easy to install somewhere in the dash. I am still going to make a digital custom flow gauge next to this one.

Here my assembly:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/366/wiasemledin3.jpg

Here my pressure gauge:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6...km16barte0.jpg

I have a similar setup, with a shureflow in the trunk and the accumulator (same as yours) in the engine bay. I had to pull the accumulator out when I recently put in a front mount so I am re-doing everything.

I also have anodized aluminum fittings --- no problems on 50% -70% methanol blends.

put a restrictor in front of the gauge the shurflo has a very strong pressure surge as it pumps, that has broken gauges for at least two of us. Mine only lived for about 20 minutes.

Richard suggests threading a fine thread allen screw into the feed hose going to the gauge. There will be enough flow past the threads to register pressure but it will damp most of the surge.

As far as distance goes it all depends on how you configure the system. People that control the spray by turning on and off the pump need to have the pump close to the nozzle. If you have an accumulator in the system you can't do it that way becasue of the time delay to pressureize the accumulator.

If you are running an accumulator you usually have a solenoid to trigger the spray (as you show in your diagram). If you place that near the jets it does not matter how long the fluid path is as the fluid line will be pressurized all the time. That is the way I had mine set up. The solenoid was only inches from the jet, and the accumulator was between the solenoid and the pump with the line at full pressure all the time the car was running.

Larry

That is good to know, thank you

Yes, I read that and have already 5mm allen screw, but to make sure I took a wide range pressure so it should take all that beating, I am also going to change my hose which came with the set, it is black but I want a see through hose so I can see if there is air bubbles in the line.


Indeed I am going to use on demand function at the pump and the line will be constantly under pressure, when I turn the key on the pump will bring the system on pressure, the distance between the accumulator from trunk to first solenoid will be 4meter (160 inch) and than it will split in two directly after the solenoid after that both lines go to another solenoids just before the nozzles.

Thanks for the heads up Larry.

Two minor constructive comments:

1) a 700cc accumulator is nice but it also carries a risk for emptying a certain amount of liquid into your manifold should your solenoid valve develops a leak. All valve leaks by nature, all depends on the contruction and plunger spring rate. It can spans from nano litre to litres. I suggest putting a system bleed down, return to tank valve when the engine is switched off.

2) The of demand switch on those pump has a dead band of 20psi or so. Your initial flow will be higher just before the demand switch reactives the pump. Any reason for not using an internal by-pass pump? You will get a migh steadier system pressure.

That?s why I got a third solenoid but it is still risky? If so I need 2-way solenoid just after the accumulator and another solenoid towards the tank otherwise it will empty whole accumulator.

No reason, this pump came with the set, I never thought about that. I was thinking that the accumulator would make sure for a steady pressure.

I found the way to make a digital flow gauge for cheap, I don?t know how long it will last but I am going to try it to see what happens.

This is the in car panel I am going to make, it is not totally at scale since I decided to get another display. The temperature thing is just a bonus, it can read 4 temperatures (PT100), flow meter reads actually RPM but there is a calculation to see how much water goes through:
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8189/wipaneelid1.jpg

Today I welded myself a water tank, I used 1.5mm thick stainless plate and a stainless closure, I didn't weld for long time so I had to warm-up little bit, but it turned out ok. I made couple mount points for the pump and accumulator. The tank can hold 10liter (2.64 gallon) water.

Front:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3...ertank1yu3.jpg

Back:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8...ertank2ww3.jpg

Front assembled:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7...ertank4jy5.jpg

Back assembled:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8...ertank3rb0.jpg

Some little progress, I had to speed up things since the car is going to be remapped next Saturday, it was last minute news for me, because the appointment was actually 2 weeks later. So I don?t have time to build every as I wanted but I will try to build so much as possible, some things on next pictures will be temporary.


2 nozzles on my custom made IC-TB pipe here:
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8434/wi2rx2.jpg

Here a overall picture on the pipe:
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9933/wi3fn9.jpg

Here I was started to build de solenoid assembly on stainless plate with holes:
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9207/wi1vs5.jpg

Here the finished version all wired up including the turbo pressure sensors, 2 pipes from IC-TB pipe will be connected to those 2 brass water pressure sensors, this is completed fully working assembly I only need 12V and some wires for the leds to make it work, I used another pipes since the first one too stiff to work with in such small assembly, but all other pipes will be see through.
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4379/wi4av7.jpg

This is a small box to monitor things, but it is temporary, I used smaller pressure gauge than I posted before:
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/1808/wi5ax3.jpg

GREAT looking system! I've got a soft spot for properly thought-out & engineered injection systems. Kudos to you!

Just a word of warning on those pressure switches. The plastic bodies aren't conducive to high boost levels and I've seen a few crack.

I've always used all brass adjustable Hobbs switches, and the Aquamist pressure switches would be a-okay too. Just a heads up as I'd hate to see such a well-put-together system like that have its weak link be the pressure switches.

Thanks Nathan, when I had these pressure switches first time in my hand I was thinking same thing they look very fragile, I used them for time being and wanted to see how long they go along, if they crack or not work good I will replace those with bras ones. My max pressure will be 16psi (1.1bar) so it is not that much but I am afraid it will crack because of the temperature under the hood, especially in the winters when its cold outside and it gets warm under the hood.
Thanks for heads up again :smile:

Like i said before, i didnt have time to build my system on proper way i like because the system must work last saturday for a ECU remap, so the setup in next pictures are not final, I will change almost everything later on, like making the solenoids assembly in a box hiding the wires and adding a display for flow rate and temperature on the water system.

I am using only distilled water with two 75cc/m nozzles (2.37 gallon a hour) first nozzle sprays water starting at 7.25psi and second nozzle starts at 11.6psi, I used the vacuum line on the BOV for the pressure switches. There are 2 other pressure switches for water just before the nozzles and it shows me inside with leds when its on pressure and injection, 2 another leds show me when the solenoids are open, water system has constant pressure between 100psi and 135psi, the pump is on demand switch it only works when the pressure drops down to 100psi till 135psi.
There is one other led which shows me the pump activity by on demand switch, 2 another leds shows me the low level switches in the water tank.

After this explanation above here some pictures of my system, like I said dont mind the wires and such because I am going to change that al when I got more time.

Here solenoid assembly:
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4540/wi6yc7.jpg
Later version will be covered.

Overall shot:
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/62/wi7sf5.jpg

The little box with leds, switch and pressure gauge:
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/162/wi8lx6.jpg
The wires stays like that till I have new cover under the steering wheel (the big cover above my pedals) I am going to modify complete cover with display and these leds in it (see display below)

Picture from driving position:
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/349/wi9in7.jpg
As you see it is good readable from that position.

The water tank in the trunk:
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/1273/wi10em7.jpg

A picture from distance:
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/510/wi11mj5.jpg

Now the thing I need to build when I got time, the flow gauge. I am only going to use the display from this unit, it is actually for computer water-cooling systems but it should work on my car to when I modify it:
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/7661/wi12hq2.jpg

All leds, switch, pressure gauge and this display will be built in the cover where you see the little box now.

I am driving around with this system for four days and ECU is remapped 3 days ago, car feels great and system works perfectly, water pressure is greatly maintained by the pump and accumulator as I can see on the pressure gauge.

Thanks for all heads up, when I finished the system, as I want I will post some more pictures.

YOu have done a great job on this, well done. I just hope there are more people do the same.
Wonderful pictures.

More pictures please.

Keep us updated, some very nice work there!.

Thanks guys.
Richard I like to special thank you for pointing out some points to make it work better and save.

I will post more picture when I finish the flow sensor but I am waiting on an interior cover so I can modify.

I got finally some time on my hands so I build up my monitoring setup further more.

I took a panel in my car and modify it to this:
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...0lfi3/wi13.jpg

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...0lfi3/wi15.jpg

And mounted in the car with an 11pol connection, everything works perfect now, my old leds where dieing on me every time so I had to use a diode on the pump and the solenoids. For 5volt on the computer display I used a voltage 7805 regulator and it works like a charm, display has 7 different colors so I can match it with the car.

Here the build-in station:
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...0lfi3/wi16.jpg

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...0lfi3/wi17.jpg

This is a great thread. I like your skills, welding up your own tank, drawing wiring diagrams, wiring, fabricating a gauge......etc.....just great stuff to read. Also, the images are fantastic!

Niiiiiiiiice..... Aquamist posted this thread over to SRTForums.......funny how I am doing something just like that on my own here also hehehe, just to share : http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355372

Fulll electrical wiring : http://yp.serveftp.com:82/IMG/_MISC/...g_FULL_RES.jpg

i think you did just fine welding despite your not having done it for a while!

nice project. :)

-ken