NACA study 531
 

Is seems that water can speed up the CO oxidation.
http://www.not2fast.com/NACA/naca-report-531.pdf

I have heard this before but never seen a study of it. It is a very good find.

CO is a power robber, it only produces 1/3 of heat energy compared to CO2.

The problem is they used super heated steam for testing. :wink:

Ah, I see. I will read it up again, very interesting.

Don't read it again that's normal protocol for testing. Change protocol changes results.
There are other types of "steam" other than saturated, dry, superheated.

Re: NACA study 531
 

So CO2 can burn? Or does CO interfere more than CO2 in combustion?

Re: NACA study 531
 

Better be late than never.

CO2 is fully oxidised, no more bonds to attract more oxygen.
CO is the result of lack of oxygen. You can consider it is half burnt wood, giving out half of the heat energy and gets throw out.

In the case of CO, it only gives out 1/3 of the heat energy.

Re: NACA study 531
 

Combustion process releases electrons. In my opinion the right amount and condition of water conducts the flame front at greater speeds.
Characterization of an Electrical Sensor for Combustion Diagnostics http://webserver.dmt.upm.es/~isidoro...cteristics.pdf

Re: NACA study 531
 

Wow, a great deal of readings to night. Thanks for the findings.

Re: NACA study 531
 

Had time to glance through the document today. It is an interesting read indeed.

I can imagine how this can be translated into the internal combustion engine dynamics.

Experiment shown present of water vapor aided frame front propagation of CO+O2 to CO2 conversion. During a normal combustion cycle starting from the onset of spark, the production of water vapor is continuous from the product of air and fuel. I can see a distinct advantage if there are presence of excess oxygen. In a fuel rich condition in a oxygen limited closed chamber, most of the CO just exits the engine via the exhaust pipe.

This is just a brief conclusion from reading the article briefly. Please chime in if you view it differently.

Re: NACA study 531
 

I view it the same way.

Fragmented combustion in a ICE is the reason why there is CO, HC,02,NOX left after combustion. I built a fragmented to Supersonic Injector for high speed combustion. Ran a big V8 engine for 20 minutes with it in garage with door shut. Any CO I'd be dead right now. Don't try this at home!!
Over on engine tips forum they say 0% humidity is when you get most power. Can't find info on that. Do you have info on that?

Re: NACA study 531
 

I only just looking into this after reading your link.

Now I have to further research to get into greater details on this to form some some basic insight of this concept.

Basically deflagration has to be induced rather a natural combustion process. In your case, steam is used to initiate this?

Re: NACA study 531
 

ICE? Please explain

Re: NACA study 531
 

Your right I'm getting old used wrong terminology in previse post. Flagration too Deflagration sounds better?
I don't use steam in my pre-burn fuel system. Some steam is created in the fuel heating process.

Re: NACA study 531
 

internal combustion engine

Re: NACA study 531
 

I guess the NACA paper is focused on oxidantion of CO in a environment with steam.

Putting this study in practice in an ICE, CO percentage will be less but HC emissions is higher.

Re: NACA study 531
 

All the air in the cylinder is at the same temperature on the tests they do.
Only the water vapor level is different. So water displaces 02 in test cylinder. But flame moves faster. Something too ponder?

Re: NACA study 531
 

One thing I've found with steam injection with carbed engine is that the HC's go down. I tested it with 4gas analyzer. Steam helps vaporize fuel on its way too combustion chamber. I don't have the 4gas analyzer now too show you that.

Re: NACA study 531
 

I just wonder the amount of system introduced was only a fraction of the products of combustion, namely CO2 and H2O.

Have you tried to work out this ratio? I will be very interested.

Re: NACA study 531
 

It was a 2.3 liter pinto engine at idle the water flow rate was about 2cc per minute. Don't know what the steam temp was about 450f 500f?

Re: NACA study 531
 

I am trying to understand the relationship between the NACA study and injection of steam.

The experiment was about the oxidation of CO to CO2. The process itself does not produce H20. Steam was then added externally.

Your experiment with "patrol + air" produces steam naturally.

Are you trying to suggest the combustion process is improved by introducing steam from an external source?

OK. assuming this is the case. 2cc/min at idle or at WOT? This is important because you can compare the ratio of steam production by natural combustion and steam introduced.

Re: NACA study 531
 

It's just a test showing different flame speeds with more or less water vapor.

I used 2cc/min at idle. 2.3L engine. Steam injected under or over carb helps flash vaporize fuel =better combustion.

I will start new thread on "steam injection"
Mark

Re: NACA study 531
 

It is certainly an interesting study of the effect of water speeding up the oxidation rate of CO.

It appears it will help the ICE in using up the fuel effectively. The will certainly help diesel engines as it has excess oxygen present always. This is true until someone start dumping fuel into the engine to gain power.