Nozzle spray angle...
 

I am looking at possible injector locations and would like to set the nozzles
so that there is no projection into the airflow, and have the tip of the
nozzle recessed 2-3 mm as per this drawing...

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS4/wirin...s/285+357N.jpg

So if someone can advise me the injector spray cone included angle, I can
look at how this setup can be achieved on 1.6-2.0 mm wall alloy tube.

Also, I have seen some data that suggests recessing the tip promotes
better vapourisation, and I would appreciate any input indicating that this
is a worthwhile exercise.

Cheers... jondee86

PS: I do recall seeing a post that mentioned the cone angle was 80 deg,
but I have been unable to locate that again.

Re: Nozzle spray angle and nozzle placement...
 

Ha... found a post that mentioned a spray cone angle of 80 deg so I guess
that answers part of my question. And while I am on the subject of nozzles
there is also the question of preferred placement for best performance.

I am putting a Sprintex S5-210 onto a 16V 4AGE engine and this pic shows
the intake and discharge ducting I will be using...

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...pskp3yuuzu.jpg

The Intake is on the right, and comprises a cast manifold with some 2-1/2"
alloy tubing. The throttle attaches to the open end of the tube. Proposal
is for one small nozzle pre-charger.

The discharge is on the left and comprises a cast manifold plus 2-1/2" alloy
tubing with three 90 deg bends. The small transition will connect the last
bend to a stock 4AGZE inlet manifold. Proposal is for one small(ish) nozzle
post-charger.

The general arrangement of the assembled pieces is as per this pic...

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...psv495wfzm.jpg

To date my searching tends to indicate that it is OK to locate the pre-
charger nozzle close to the charger inlet, and that the post-charger nozzle
should be as far from the inlet manifold as possible. If anyone has any
suggestions based on their personal experience of what works best, please
post them up here :)

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Hi Jondee,

Your setup looks sweet although for my tastes there is some extra bending there which you could experience air turbulence. If the charger was on the side of the engine going into a 45degree angle to the manifold would be ideal. Although it does not mean it will not work well eventually :) .

Why would you make such an impact on nozzle angle ? Some setups have nozzles pointed directly to the flow coming and work well. I have mine in a 45Degree bend.

Why hiding it between too walls ? This way injection could have more probability wetting the walls instead of mixing into the air causing liquid water to form into the intake, which is bad...

I attached where would I put the nozzle location PRE/Post Charger

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Thanks for the suggestions parmas

The layout of the ducting was dictated to a large extent by the lack of
space on the intake side of the engine, and by the fact that I did not want
to get involved with building a custom intake manifold at this stage. It was
suggested that I could eliminate all but one of the 90 deg bends on the
discharge side if I entered the GZE manifold from below. While that may
have been possible, I felt that it would starve cylinders 1 and 2.

So I went with a layout that is as close as I could get to the factory angle
of entry into the top of the manifold. I have faith that the Toyota factory
engineers did some testing on the non-symetrical runner layout to make sure
that it worked reasonably well. I have also increased the throttle size to
60 dia and all tubes to 2-1/2" to try and keep flow losses down. This is my
first venture into supercharging, so I am more interested in creating an
engine that makes driving a pleasure, rather than ultimate power.

Mounting the pre-charger nozzle in the bend seems reasonable. I think that
I would mount it square to the surface of the tube to try and project the
mist as far out into the airstream as possible (penetrate the fast moving
layer of air on the outside of the bend).

The post charger nozzle where you suggest, or perhaps in the straight
tube below the small angle bend to place it out of the way of mechanical
damge. Again installed square to the tube surface.

My interest in recessing the tip of the nozzle comes from reading this page..
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.c...rticles_id=100

http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.c..._nozzle_54.jpg

Allowing the cone to develop before exposing it to the "shearing" effect of
the airstream seems logical to me. It will still get sheared, but the droplets
will be finer and should disperse more effectively. Sound reasonable ?

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Looking at the angle of those nozzle, it could do with every little help to improve the atomisation. Take a look of the video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=xvSNmn6A64M

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Oh, I don't know what type of nozzles they are... but obviously not yours :)
The image was photoshopped simply to show how recessing the nozzle tip
would allow the cone to expand a little more before it was "folded over" by
airflow within the tube. I assume that even your nozzles have the water
leaving the pinhole as a solid stream which very quickly expands and breaks
up into small droplets.

My interpretation of this information is that the water leaving an exposed
nozzle would be more likely to be folded back against the wall of the tube
than the same nozzle recessed a few mm below the tube surface. However,
I'm sure that you have more than likely tested this theory in the lab. And
if experimentation shows that there is no benefit from recessing the nozzle
tip, then I'll just use the standard adapter and try and get the end of the
nozzle flush with the inner surface of the tube.

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

That's why I like to put an injector in the middle of an elbow of 45degree since putting it just into a straight pipe could lead to wetting walls/inefficient dissipation.

Although I would be interested if someone prove scientifically what works best

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Personally, I am inclined to think that placing the nozzle in the tube just
before the inside of a bend would result in the best mixing.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...BHxr5DBZ30tDJg

Using this simulation as a reference, and assuming that the spray is swept
away and remains quite close to the nozzle side wall, the spray would then
be turned around the inside radius of the bend where flow separation and
turbulance occurs. This should promote better dispersion and mixing of the
air and water.

However, this remains just a theory without any valid indication of exactly
how the spray penetrates the airstream once it leaves the nozzle.

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Been doing some searching but so far have not been able to find anything
of much use. However I did find this...

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps9zruwy3u.jpg

It shows, as might be expected, that larger droplets penetrate further into
the airstream. Smaller droplets are the first to be swept away. This leads me
to believe that placing the nozzle either on the inside of a bend or immediately
after a bend, would be advantageous. The larger droplets would then be
projected towards the higher velocity air on the outside of the bend, which
would help break them up and prevent/reduce any impingement on the
farside wall.

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Flow velocity is the fastest on the inside of a bend.
Droplets do not like to take bends. They will hit the wall and wet it.
http://www.appliedmc.com/images/e-zi...ough-elbow.jpg
This is the reason fuel injectors are spraying straight into the inlet port.
They are not mounted before any bends. In the old days of throttle body injection the manifolds were first designed for wet flow and they were heavily heated to let that wet fuel film on the intake plenum wall evaporate.

Water evaporates about 10x slower than methanol and much much slower than gasoline.
If you want water meth as droplets in the cylinder and not as a stream along the wall you have two choices.
Either have the nozzles in the straightest section before the inlet ports of the engine or mount the nozzle as far away from the engine as possible. In the latter case there is more time to evaporate, even if streaming along the wall. In the first case, the highest percentage of droplets will make it into the cylinder.

Calculate the g-forces in a bend of your radius at WOT and max flow. You will find numbers of 1000G and more. These are typical numbers found in vortex water separators to remove water droplets from natural gas.

In the end all loss of fluid can be compensated by injecting more or use of a higher percentage of methanol. It evaporates on the wall as well as in the air.

IMHO inject as suggest by parmas straight into the SC and then in the straight section leading into the intake plenum. Your center cylinders will receive more spray than the outer ones as the drops have to take more bends. Little you can do about it except going for a direct port set-up.

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Thanks for the input rotrex :)

If the water is more effective in the cylinders as droplets rather than
vapour, then it makes sense to move the post-charger nozzle closer to
the inlet manifold. I'm not sure which position you are recommending, so
I have marked them here...

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...psrzay9sk4.jpg

On top of the last bend would give a straight shot into the manifold, and
probably separate a fair amount of water out on the manifold floor. However
this will find its way into the cylinders no problem as the engine is installed
with a slight slope.

Will it make any significant difference if the nozzle is mounted radially to
the bend, or axially to the following tube ? Same situation applies to the
pre-charger nozzle.

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

I'd take the right position, maybe a bit further left, say 2cm, so the spray mostly points into the pipe. You might even point the nozzle straight down into the pipe towards the manifold.

The left nozzle position would likely lead to a large percentage of the droplets hitting the outer walls of the pipes creating more of a wall bound fluid stream than mist.

Water vapor does little for you power wise, it actually costs power. You need it mostly as fine fluid droplets in the cylinder.
For methanol this is less of an issue. Most will evaporate even just hitting the hot inlet valve. There has been research done on comparing ethanol port injection vs direct (in cylinder) injection regarding charge cooling effect.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum2/vbu...eferrerid=6624
They found that much of the ethanol seems to evaporate hitting either the inlet valve or the cylinder walls (cylinder, head and piston crown) before the intake valve closes. It rather cools the metal than the inlet charge and does little to raise the knock limit by means of in cylinder charge cooling. It still raises knock limit due to its chemical properties aka high octane number.


That can be a good thing, too, say for a heat sensitive motor lacking piston oil jet cooling or a rotary engine.

One more suggestion. Mount nozzle threats for both positions and compare what gains you the most power after ignition tuning. You will find that the ignition advance requeirements will be rather different for the two positions. The position that needs the most ignition advance to restore full power got the most water mist into the cylinder. With the engine being out of the car this is very easy to implement.

The more methanol your mix contains, the less the nozzle position matters.

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Nice explained Rotrex. I like your thinking style makes me wonder of an updated revision on mine for my next high compression build...

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

OK... I think I'll go with the in-line (back of the bend) location. Should be
easy enough if I can use these nozzles...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Fd...Q=w417-h741-no

As suggested, I will position the nozzles a little bit towards the incoming
airflow to try and keep as much water off the walls as possible. Having the
tip of the nozzle projecting a few mm should help a little as well.

@ Richard L
I don't see the extended nozzles anywhere on the Aquamist Direct site. Can
you confirm that they are selected the same as standard nozzles ?

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

point it towards the opening of the intake plenum, so straight down

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

I'm thinking something along these lines would work ?

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...pspbmssfbb.jpg

Should be easy enough to make a couple of aluminum bungs and have
them welded to the tube. I don't have a lot of clearance on the intake
ducting, so I would have to check that there is enough room for the longer
mounting detail. Right angle fittings should work.

EDIT: Due to the amount of messing around involved in mounting the
nozzles in-line, I am thinking that I will just put them at 45 deg as shown
in the revised sketch. Since 99% of people mount them straight in the
side of a duct and it works, mounting in the corner should also work.

Also means I can use standard nozzles with a button welded on the tube
and tapped M8.

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

@rotrex Actually, looking back at the advice you gave in this thread...
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum2/vbu...1006#post21006

I am starting to think that port injection may be the easiest/best solution
to ensuring even distribution of water. This picture shows that there is more
room under the fuel rail than I first thought, and it should be possible to tap
a nozzle into the top of each runner close to the injector.

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...psflhje0ul.jpg

This location will avoid water pooling on the manifold floor, and bypasses the
question of how best to mount a nozzle in the ducting. My research to date
has not found any urgent reason to spray pre-charger, other than when
using the car for sustained high speed operation (racing). So I will probably
put that on hold for now. It would be a simple job to add a 5th nozzle at a
later date.

I have a couple of questions regarding the best nozzle and fitting setup for
port injection...
1. Do I need checkvalve nozzles ?
2. If so, what is the lowest height option for a right angle connection ?

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

The extended nozzle is only available in the "internal checkvalve" version.

.

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Having the setup port injected will not affect the air mixture thus no cooling is being made. I would still make at least one nozzle post charger to gather that extra hp from a denser mixture.

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Hahahahahah... just had a look at what a port injection system costs :eek:
So an end to thinking out loud. It is always possible to upgrade, so for now
I will go with a basic two nozzle system... one pre-charger and one post-
charger. Standard nozzles installed at 45 deg in the bends as per the above
sketch.

From what I understand, placing the post charger nozzle further from the
inlet manifold would help the cooling effect, but increase the chances of
water being centrifuged out of the airstream. Placing it in the last bend will
reduce the time for cooling, but allow more water into the cylinders in
droplet form... so perhaps the better option ?

The pre-charger nozzle appears to be less critical as the charger "mixes"
the air and will not be sensitive to droplet distribution at the inlet.

The only question remaining is whether it is necessary to use one (or two)
checkvalve nozzles ? There will be some pressure differential between the
nozzles, so draining could occur during out of boost driving. However, there
will only be about 0.5 metres of 4 mm tube between the nozzles, and this
should not create any significant delay between activation and spray ?

EDIT: Oh,and one last question... what would be the recommended water
split be between the pre and post charger nozzles ? 25/75 ?

Appreciate the input as I like to examine the alternatives :)

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Jondee, refrain from asking more questions, you have a good thread to refer on. Read it out slowly and decide from where to begin.

Good Luck!

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Port injection costs three extra jets, that is all.
You can get 4 jets with integrated check valves form aquamist and combine them with any feed of pressurized mix you like.
To test the post supercharger jet, just get a extra jet for this and as parmas said, try it out.

My system is a former Auqamist 2c. After I had pump issues, I installed a Flotec 160PSI pump and slightly modified the aquamist loom to maintain functionality, .ie. Blue LED and system off if tank is empty and to maintain the pump runs indicator.
I kept the constant presure supply and the Aquamist fast acting valve controlled by the ECU. The valve does not care what jets I mount. :-) As long as the pump is up to it, it works, The pump itself runs to its preset pressure and stops. Should the railö pressure drop due to injection, it automatically starts again. It also triggers a LED in my cockpit. The faster it flickers, the more I inject. :-)

With water you will lose power unless you advance the ignition timing. The more you drop power, the more water enters the cylinder in the form of mist.

Regarding jets, I'd purchase a selection. For the port injection, I am on 4x 0.4mm C aquamist jets and have the feeling I could even go to 4x 0.5mm. Literally, the more I inject, the more power I can extract after a ignition adjustment.


If your ECU has a adaptive fueling option, just give it your desired target AFR and let it sort the fueling with the extra alcohol injected.

If you start with water, you'll find the engine will sound soft. This is a indication of the slower and delayed burn.

In terms of space, you need some 3cm above the plenum for the jet, a piece of 4mm tubing and a 90 deg bend.

Other manufacturers may have flatter jets or some that are mounted to a 90 deg bend.
I have good experience with the Aquamist jets. You can maintain them as they are screwed together from two pieces, never had once blocked up, contain a filter fritt. Always use a pre filter. No component of any WI system likes any dirt or mineral deposits. Always use deionized water. If it's marked for drinking, it is no good as RO purified water for drinking purposes has minerals added for tast and health.

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Thank you gentlemen :) There is a lot to learn and some experimentation
will be required to gain more understanding. I shall start with a single nozzle
and add a second once I have the system installed and working for long
enough to get the basic tuning completed.

I shall also be using different pulleys so that I can start with 10psi boost,
move to 15psi, and then finally to 20psi if the results indicate that 20psi can
be reached with my setup. Adding port injection will be something to consider
when I change to the 15psi pulley.

It will be several months before the conversion from NA to supercharged is
completed, but you can be sure I will report back once I have the car tuned
and the WI system working.

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

15 and especially 20 PSI are some serious boost numbers to push through a roots style blower without charge cooling and on petrol.
As Parmas and others did you will indeed need a large amount of ADI fluid to keeps this from having knock issues.
I also suggest in this case to consider pre compressor injection as suggested ans successfully employed by Parmas. Thing will get really hot.
Have you checked your compressor map regarding the expected flow and boost numbers?
Are you still reasonably efficient?

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Ahh... good questions, and I don't have any good answers :o

When I began this project I was only intending to target 15psi, but the
only pulley I could get at the time was a small one that was 20psi capable.
I did look at A2W intercoolers, but decided to see what was possible with
WI because it was easier to implement. These are the maps I was given...

Isentropic Efficiency
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps4rxgwfe2.jpg

Volumetric Efficiency
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...psv3yx1yeb.jpg

I don't really fully understand how to interpret them. Hopefully, being a
modern twinscrew design, WI will be able to control the heat generation
up to some reasonable pressure. I am not obsessed with reaching 20psi
and will be quite happy if I can run thru the gears at 15psi now and then :)
The supercharger I am using has an internal pressure ratio of 1.4 and my
engine has a compression ratio of 8.9:1 if that helps ?

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

What's the HP target? This SC seems good for some 300HP, so about 250g/sec of air, for a pressure ratio of 2, so a tad less than 1 bar of boost. This suits to a engine with NA power of about 150HP.

The first diagram shows the efficiency over airflow and pressure ratio. You need about 100g of air per second for 120HP. The lower the efficiency the hotter the air gets out of the SC. The second map shows what percentage of the theoretical volume of the SC is expelled per revolution. Say it pumps 1liter per revolution and vol efficiency is 89%, you only get 890ml of air out per revolution. Pressure ratio is the ratio of output pressure and input pressure, both on the absolute scale. So athmospheric, 1bar absolute, in and 2 bar absolute or 1bar of boost out is 2/1=2. There always intake losses, so your real PR is always a tad lower (10-15%) than the ideal number.

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

I am sorry to tell you this but you better leave that 20psi pulley on the shelf.

I am attaching you the best and max high boost efficiency.

The First line shows where the charger is meant to work best which is 7-8psi @ 90g/sec or 12lbs/min. To make it more simple : With my 1.5L engine and a GT2560 turbo, I reach 12lbs/min @ about 3000rpm.

The Second line shows where the charger peak it's efficiency or in poor words begins to "overheat" the Air drasticaly compared to relatively lower pressures.
The Max working pressure is 15psi @ 170g/sec or 22.5lbs/min. To make it more simple : Compared with mine I reach 22.5lbs/min @ 5500rpm

If I knew your engine specs I could understand where this charger is with your engine. Specs needed:

- Engine size cc
- No of cylinders
- No of valves

To simply understand boost efficiency if you make a chart of boost vs air temperature you will understand without any compressor maps where your charger efficiency is. The chart will show elevated/abnormal air temperatures when out of efficiency.

Example :

Air Temp marking 30DegC at 5psi @ 3000rpm and 31DegC at 8psi @ 4000rpm.

DIFF 3PSI = 1DegC increase

Air Temp marking 34DegC at 8psi @ 3000rpm and 40DegC at 11psi @ 4000rpm.

DIFF 3PSI = 6DegC increase

A super efficient compressor would increase Air Temp equally related to boost differential at same RPM. Sadly no compressor is so super at high boost levels ...

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

At a pressure ratio of 2 efficiency mostly stays around 70% even at well over 200g/sec. That is OK.

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

I'll have to read that a few more times to see if I can understand !!

My engine is 1600cc 4 cylinder 16 valves twincam Toyota 4AGE 8.9:1 comp.
The Sprintex displaces 0.94 litres/revolution with internal PR of 1.4

I don't have a chart for the Sprintex but here is the chart for an Opcon
twinscrew displacing 1.2 l/rev and internal PR of 1.35. Being of similar design
the performance should be similar ?
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps49d06897.jpg

And here are typical performance curves for the Opcon Autorotor...
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...psp7gt9r6q.jpg

To begin I will have the 10psi pulley and if it is possible to make 10psi with
WI only, I will be happy with that :) If I need to have more I will look to add
A2W using a kit like this...

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...psyjiirdln.jpg

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Our specs are similar my engine is 1500cc 4cyl 16valve twincam with 8.5:1 compression.

Forget the charge cooler... You definitely not needing it till 20psi

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Excellent :D Then I shall proceed as planned. I have decided to install three
injection points, all in bends and arranged to spray axial to the following tube.
One will be in the bend before the charger, one in the first bend after the
charger, and one in the last bend before the engine inlet manifold. This will
give the choice of 1, 2 or 3 nozzles spraying simultaneously.

I will also drill, tap and plug the inlet runners (straight up) to allow for the
installation of port injection when it becomes necessary. I have selected one
each of standard nozzles 0.70, 0.50 and 0.40B to begin, and will order more
once initial tuning with water is under way. I think water only should be
sufficient to reach 10psi ? If not, I will change to 25-35% methanol mix.

Once again thanks to you and rotrex for your guidance :)

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

If you have a wideband Lambda Sensor and a programmable ECU, I'd start with a 50:50 mix right away. It requires less changes to ignition timing and works over a wider range of AFRs.

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Yes, I have an LC-1 wideband in the car and it will be hooked up to the new
ECU to allow the auto-tune function to work on the fuel map. While I haven't
spent much time considering how to go about tuning the map above 100kPa
I do recall reading that 50/50 v/v was the easy way to mix methanol and
distilled water (deionised not readily available here).

I also recall that tuning with a 50/50 mix comes close to allowing the engine
to run a gasoline only ignition map ? Hopefully, that means I can use timing
from turbo (no WI) ignition maps as a a guide for my initial setup ?

One thing I have been wondering about, is how the WBO2 handles the mix
of methanol and gasoline ? Stoich for meth is 6.4 vs 14.7 for gasoline. So if
the target AFR in boost is 12.5 at a certain load, does the ECU just "ignore"
the presence of water and meth, and simply adjust the gasoline injection
to achieve the target AFR ? Sure makes life easy if it does :)

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

LC-1 is a terrible system. I had two failing in short order. Got a STACK WBO sensor and no more issues ever since.

Start with a turbo map is OK, but retard the ignition before you start in the positive boost "area" even with water methanol.

Forget about AFR for different fuels. The engine likes to run with a certain residual oxygen level in the exhaust gases. This is the same for all fuels. This residual oxygen is converted to a lambda value which is 1.000 for a stoich mix. Then you can convert this lambda to AFR values for different fuels. If you use a AFR signal for feedback to the ECU, just stick the petrol values, I.e. 14.7:1 stoich. Many engines with WI run well between an (petrol indicated) AFR of 11.8 to 12.5. If you go any richter, performance drops a lot. Depending on boost levels, heat, amount of ADI injection etc, they run well even leaner, but things get hotter and knock sensitivity increases. As you do not opt for any charge cooling, I'd stay on the 12-12.5:1 AFR side of things. If you use pure methanol as the sole fuel, you need twice as much compared to petrol, but at best power, your AFR gauge set to petrol will still show some 12:1. So just ignore them. Fuel specific AFRs become important if you gauge your AFR from the fuel flow values. As we have a convenient sensor for this, you do not need to know your actual fuel flow. The ECU also shows it to you as a percent injector duty cycle.

To get around all this better work with lambda values. Second best, just stick to petrol AFRs to judge where you are.
If you add methanol and (petrol indicated) AFR turns richer by 1.5, just reduce fuel until you are back :-)

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

Some people like the LC-1 and some people have problems with it. Mine has
been working fine for five years, but I have to admit the car does not get
used a lot. STACK instruments are nice, but they are $$$$$.

I work with AFR instead of Lambda, but the ECU can display either one. At
the moment I am waiting to order a new ECU as the manufacturer is about
ready to release a new model that will have a lot of new features... some
of which will be useful :p I will wait until the end of the month, if the new
model is nor released I will buy one of the older model. It will be good enough
run the supercharged engine and I am already familiar with the software.

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

AFR gauges work with voltages. According to the Pre-Set program and voltage the gauge puts a reading.

Example:

Program 1 : Gasoline, 1.25Volts = 12.5AFR

Program 2 : Methanol, 1.25Volts = 5.52AFR

Let's say we use 100% gasoline OFF boost while shifting to 100% methanol ON boost. If program 1 is selected and the engine is tuned to run 5.52AFR on methanol, the gauge should represent a reading of 12.5AFR.

Methanol likes rich mixtures so if using 100% methanol ON boost the lower the AFR value the better power output. Actually seeing 10AFR using program 1 and 100% methanol is considered safe and powerful.

The only drawback is fuel consumption.

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

A bit off topic, but I will ask here rather than start a new thread.

I would like to locate an air temp sensor in the intake manifold so that the
ECU can read the temp of air entering the engine. The readily available GM
Delphi open "fast response" sensors seem to be popular for this application.
They are rated for 200kPa and up to 130degC.

http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/images/iat-sensor2.jpg

What sort of effect does water-meth spray have on the thermistor ?

The GM sensor has a screw-in metal body, but I will be running a 3mm PTFE
thermal insulator gasket on the intake manifold, so manifold heat soak should
not be a significant problem.

Cheers... jondee86

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

The mix makes no issues except that you might (I got) get erratic readings and low temp spikes as methanol dribbles evaporate on the sensor bulb.

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

I have one similar off Haltech. Injected many times few inches in front for years.

Never had issues apart from what rotrex said especially when throttle closed after WOT run

Re: Nozzle spray angle...
 

OK, I'll grab one then. I actually have the original enclosed type sensor
from the 4AGZE (supercharged) manifold. However, I have been told that
the enclosed type of sensor does not react fast enough for non-intercooled
applications. I hope to be able to use the open type sensor reading to trip
an alarm (via the ECU) if the supercharger discharge temperature goes too
high, so fast is better :)

Cheers... jondee86