WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

G’day guy,

I’ve been posting on this forum for a few years now but this is my first post since changing user name. Just wanted to shed some more light on the results from most recent experimentation with the water meth injection system fitted to the boost shack 1600. The previous results can been seen here http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum2/vbu...ead.php?t=2987
In this instalment, the aim was to optimise the tune in the lower RPM range and increase the total power output by increasing the water meth flow to around 50% of total fuel flow. This equated to roughly 1250cc/min. The system was set up to use a total of 4 jets, 3 in the charge pipe post intercooler and 1 pre turbo.
Tuning saw us achieve some great gains in the lower and mid range RPM, as you can see from the before and after dyno pictures below. But with the water meth activated, we soon realized that this configuration was not yielding the results we were after, with a 16kw decrease over our last peak numbers.
At this point, we took a set back and sat down with the Unigroup Engineering crew to investigate the possible causes of the drop in power and a way ahead. In the end it came down to the fact the we were injecting too much water meth in a localised area, as we had over 1100cc/min being injected at one area post intercooler. This caused the air to reached and exceeded 100% saturation point, meaning the amount of air entering the engine could no longer suspend the liquid being injected in an atomised form. This causes overcooling of the combustion process due to poor atomisation, leading to a loss in power, which is exactly what we were experiencing.
It was decided that we would remove one of the three charge pipe jets which would reduce the post intercooler injection to around 800cc/min. This resulted in an 11kw in in power and a much nicer power curve right through the rev range. That said, we were still 5kw off our previous peak of 336kw. We decided to leave it there for now, as we will be making some changes in the near future, which we will expand on shortly.

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/...6-10-00-58.png

During the tuning process, we paid close attention to the EGTs, via the thermocouples fitted to the exhaust manifold. A significant temperature drop in EGTs was noticed when water meth was activated, as was the fact that cylinder number 2 was running quite a bit hotter than the rest. Some individual cylinder fuel adjustment was used to quickly solve this issue.

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/...6-12-14-16.png
http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/...6-12-14-48.png

During a recent outing to Sydney’s roll racing, we did some data logging. The ambient temp on the day was up around the 38-degree mark. In the waiting lanes, air intake temp reached 50+ degrees. At the end of each run, air intake temps were down to 40 degrees.
In the next instalment, we will be maintaining the current flow rate but making the switch back to direct port water meth injection. This will be done using 1x140cc/min jet in each inlet runner, 1x250cc/min jet post intercooler piping and 1x150cc/min jet pre turbo. The reason for making the switch is for better atomisation, less chance of saturation and a more equal distribution of the water meth. We are hopeful that with this change and some more fine tuning, we will be able to achieve 350rwkw. Only time will tell so stay tuned. Please feel free to add to the discussion by leaving any questions or feedback you may have. The links below are some videos of the car at Sydneys Roll Racing events. Cheers, Orlando

https://youtu.be/mDHA5L54B6A

https://youtu.be/aXkfvyRhUyQ

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

DP should help here.
Your inlet manifold is not desiged for wet flow. Injecting a lot of fluid upstream of the plenum will have a lot of fluid running along the walls.
And this flow is not uniformly distributed among the cylinders. WW2 aero engines were designed for wet flow.
A good indicator are your cylinder trims. The more they increase with increasing spray, the less uniform the spray is distributed.
You might also get EGT related artifacts from big droplets passing straight through the engine and evaporating in the exhaust manifold. You might get more cooling from more fluid coming out of the exhaust port.

Unequal water contents across the cylinders will lead to unequal flame front speeds.
Cylinders with more water will hit max torque before the ones with less water.
This will flatten the power vs ignition timing curve leading to lower max power.

The methanol acts as a high octane fuel that is partly vaporized before entering the cylinder. It masks some of the distribution issues. This is the reason I believe many have better success with higher methanol content. They benefit form the high octane number, not that much from evaporative knock surpession in the cylinder.
If you run pure water, any issues in spray distribution show as knock on the cylinders that get less flow or the bigger droplets.

Any methanol that evaporates from heat extracted from the manifold or pipes leading to the engine will reduce air density. Any meth that does not evaporate from heat extracted from the air will cause no air temp reduction and hence no density increase. This effect is, as mentioned before, contributes only a part of the effect.
It works well for low flow rates injected in the front section of the inlet tract.
To get it to work well for higher flow rates, you need a very fine mist from air assited nozzles. Riceracing's setup is nice example.

With 350kw, you will need way bigger jets than 4 140cc jets for DP.


Air saturation is largely irrelevant at high methanol flow rates.
You do not gain much power by charge cooling outside of the cylinders.
You want small droplets within the cylinder for knock supression.

If you still get knock with DP before hitting best torque, increase flow rate.

Mount the jets on top of the manifold in line with the injectors.
If mounted elsewhere, the spray will not be distributed well within the cylinder itself, especially front to rear.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Ive done abit of a backyard DP injection setup on my 2jz. Ive got 6x240cc DP injectors and 1x300cc pre turbo injectors. On 23psi my fuel flow is around 60% or 3600cc ( ID1000's ) so my injection rate is about 49% without missfire ( 50/50 by volume ).

To be noted also my injectors only see approx 40psi so atomization isnt great but the valve is also closed for some time during the cycle so the water/meth and fuel will pool a little anyways. Ive also ran less pressure ( 20psi ) for less flow without issues.

Heres a little video of it on 16psi and approx 1300cc ( 20psi injection pressure ) 60/40 water/meth. Going by the weight and mph its making around 530hp at the flywheel. Have since dropped the compression and 9.2:1 and put stock cams back in it, will see how it goes.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gjifYRPYsc

Cheers for a good read and actual results

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Apologises for the late post.

Have your consider reducing the spark gap just in case the ignition system is stressed and not allowing sparks to fly? 0.4mm is not out of the normal on some very powerful engine I came across in the past.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Put on a M&W CDI 250mJ (hi switchable) with correct coils and their false 'diagnosis' of issue will go away ;)

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

G'day guys, sorry for the late response and thanks you all for your feedback.

Rotrex, you mentioned that I would need greater than 140cc per cylinder to reach a target of 350kw. What amount would you recommend per cylinder to reach this target?

Richard, my current ignition system seems up to the task. I recently made the switch from a CDI to an inductive ignition system. I know this may seem a little odd but the car actually performed better across a wider operating range now than it did with the CDI system.
Cheers

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

What CDI system did you replace (specification of it and matching coil) and what condition was it in?

I've tried every inductive ign snake oil out there and nothing comes close to matching a M&W proDrag2 Hi/Lo combo, you will need x 2 of those boxes and their latest CDI coils and it wont have the issue your 'tuner' says it has ;) It's an ignition misfire cause its incapable of running a true water injected car, tune the engine don't let it tune you ;)

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

It was an autronic 500r CDI unit with bosch coils. I can't remember the exact coil specs.
I now use LS2 coils with Denso Iridium IK22 spark plugs gapped to 1mm. No missing even when running over a 1000cc of water meth and 35 psi boost. I can also run as lean as 15:1 afr when cruising which was never achievable with the CDI system. Inductive ignition systems have come a long way in recent years and not a moment too soon.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

They don't work at 60psi boost and 0.550L and 10,000rpm on methanol ;-)
Anything that is high powered, 50%+ excess fuel ratio, water injected, high rpm is all CDI based, I've never seen one car run inductive based coils that worked.

You may not hear the misfire but it will show up as a loss of power :)
most common mistake I see is people using those snake oil coils then blaming everything under the sun for loss of power.

p.s. 500R (they made a couple of versions) but most are lower energy (105mJ), and if not run with good coil will not be a reflection of a 'CDI' v's antique ign system BTW, the plug gap is way too large, if its still low in power and you can or willing to try for a 4cyl turbo water injected car 2 x M&W ProDrag2 boxes in 250mJ/125mJ (HiLo) will fire anything and be suitable for constant duty road/race use.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

I'd say 200-250cc per cylinder comes closer to being useful and a little headroom won't hurt.

I'd skip all the post intercooler jets and just consider keeping the pre turbo jet.
As the 250cc per cylinder need to be injected into some 2+ bar of boost, you will need either 10+ bar of pump pressure with 0.5mm Aquamist jets or up the size to 0.6mm if you stick to the 7 bar of pump pressure.

Here are recent 390 whp from a 2l 4-cylinder running 4x 0.5mm Aquamist jets at 1.55-1.85 bar without any knock.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum2/vbu...?t=2863&page=4

1mm plug gap and misfires under very high boost are not unheard of :-)
Riceracing has posted a fair share of results for high boost high HP WI.
Once you have uniform spray entering all combustion chamber is a reasonably uniform manner, it is typically only the ignition system holding you back.
For dry flow multi cylinder manifolds there are only two ways of achieving a uniform distribution from all I have seen and read: pre turbo with a air assisted nozzles and their extremely fine mist or direct port.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Rice Racing, I agree with your findings on CDI being the best ignition set up when using water injection. It's an option will pursue if/when my current system reaches its limits. Until then, I will soldier on and see where it takes me.

Rotrex, thank you for sharing that link. Those are some good results which has definitely got my attention. I have read a lot of your posts on the benefits of port injection and, like myself, most people seem to take a more conservative approach with regards to how much water meth they inject. Based on your advice, and some previous tips from Rice Racing, I will move forward with larger 0.6mm DP jets and a small (50-100cc) post intercooler jet. Taking this into account, what size pre turbo jet would you recommend?

Thanks again for all your feedback guys. It is greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Boosting a 1800cc Datsun engine to 500HP I would not call conservative.
When I was trying pre turbo on my Rotrex C30-94 I found that 0.5mm jet gave IAT fluctuations. The sensor was mounted after the charge cooler. this indicates bigger droplets accumulating on the IAT sensor. A 0.3mm jet did not yield such fluctuations.
To me it sounds odd that you run a modern port fuel injection system and then combine it with single carburetor style water injection, but without the manifolds designed for wet flow.
Can be done, but needs a different spray spproach.

Again, skip that post IC jet. I won't do much.exept getting you an unequal water and methanol distribution = unevenly distributed knock and AFR rates across the cylinders.

At your boost level, you would also be well suited for a air assited system such as what riceracing is offering. It would simplify your setup as it gets away with mutiple jets, pumps etc. its very fine mist makes it resonably uniform even trough dry flow intake systems.
The trick is that it starts with a very fine mist, much finer that pressure driven nozzles, and sprays it into the turbocharger. Here a big fraction of the methanol and some of the water will evaporate making the mist even finer. This fine mist, probably better called fog :-), stays reasonably well suspended in the air stream and makes it into the cylinder.

Now you run significantly more boost (3+bar?) and with its much higher exit temperatures. I may swallow a bigger jet with flow rates of 150 or even 250cc/min.

Still at first I would only run DP to see where it gets you.
Rob's Evo in the link i posted did not gain any power anymore with more ignition advance. At his current boost level of 1.85bar tapering doen to 1.55 bar (realtive) he is not knock limited anymore and can run an optimal ignition timing. He achieved this with 4x 0.5mm jets and some 5 bar differential spray pressure, so just some 600ml/min total. He said he will increase boost next.

The total flow of mix only tells you half the story. The other half is how much of this flow rate makes it into the cylinder as actual mist and how well it is distributed.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Since my last post here Ive upped the boost to 30ish psi and still injecting 1750cc/min at 50/50. My plug gaps are at 0.5mm with IGN1A coils without ignition issues.

Since going direct port with a heavy shot I wouldnt go back to a single jet. Well I was using around 1300cc pre turbo with an air atomizer but still had distribution issues which caused silly missfires etc since DP no issues. Cheers

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Just had a look at your drag video. For water injection, the AFR was in the 11.2-11.5 range. That is a tad too rich for heavy water meth injection in my experience. Flame speed drops a fair bit that rich. I'd try to not run richer than 11.8.
With 30PSI you should see insane HP numbers. :-)

The more complex and "bended" the intake manifold is, the worst central injection systems become or the more advantageous direct port with well positioned jets gets.
BMW uses 2 jets for their M3GTS with water injection, but have positioned them well in the plenum chamber for good distribution across the 6 runners. They also only spray small amounts and with it add litte extra power.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

I was thinking I was on the rich side. When you start running plenty of water/meth would there be a point where you start having to aim at a lower afr as it gets closer to a methanol engine running petrol lol? Yes it is making a bit of power lol, Id say up around 700hp as it feels as quick as when it had run 9.6@141mph on a previous setup ( 1jz twincharge ). Cheers

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

G'day guys,

So I've made the switch back to direct port injection utilizing 140cc DP jets. I also used a 260cc jet post intercooler and a 140cc jet pre turbo. On the dyno, things did not go as planned as the car ran out of injector flow and also developed an inlet manifold leak. I did managed to collect some useful data though:

In the log below, the car was running 20psi boost without WMI. Cylinder EGTs were consistent and pretty much equal throughout the rev range.

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/...20no%20WMI.png


In this log, the car was running 32psi boost with WMI. You will notice that cylinder 4 EGT falls to around 40 degrees lower than the rest soon after the WMI is activated.

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/...ling%20log.png

I have a strong feeling that a lot more of the liquid from the post intercooler jet is making its way into cyl 4 than the other cylinders. I would really appreciate some feedback on what you guys think after taking a look at the logs. please note that in the logs, AN6 - Voltage 0-5V is reading the voltage output from the Aquamist flow sensor.

Cheers.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Good to see youve gone back to DP theboostshack :).

After hurting a piston at 30psi I decided to do a little research and came across this http://www.turbobuick.com/threads/al....378231/page-3.

It pretty much says with large amounts of meth ( and water in my case ) you need to tune the engine a little richer by the gas afr scale. I had my engine tuned at 11.3 when it hurt it and going by the plug that had the hurt piston it was lean, after putting it back together Ive settled with 10.5 to be safe and the plugs look happy.

You would think the water would cancel out the heat/lean issue but these are my findings, it may not be necessary for all engines but mine needs to be that rich not to hurt stuff. Cheers

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

The higher mix percentage you inject the more uniform the spray needs to be. it has litte to do with lambda.

A central injection point is not going to work well past a certain percentage and optimal lambda values for power.
The only exception are engines with dedicated wet flow manifolds from yesteryear with centrally mounted carburetors or central throttle body injection. they were DESIGNED to distribute the liquid fuel reasonably uniform across the cylinders.
A dry flow manifold does not do that.

The work around is to drown the engine in fuel from the (direct port) fuel injectors to keep everything on the rich side.
the other work around is folks using high percentages or even pure methanol.
This also covers up distribution issues as is burns well across a wide range of AFRs with excellent knock properties.
This is why IMHO often people with simple single nozzles systems make more power on meth alone that with a 50:50 mix.
WW2 and F1 in the 80is have shown that 50:50 water methanol is capable of higher power levels that methanol alone. BUT it has to be distributed uniformly across the cylinders.

You probably have seen the engine bay pictures of the WRC Subaru cars that featured Aquamist systems.
What did they use with the modern port fuel injected engines? You guess is: direct port injection with 4 nozzles pointing straight to the head's intake ports.

On a 50:50 mix you lose power once you go richer that 11.8 given you have a uniform fuel distribution. It starts to burn really slowly past that.

if you don't pay attention to distribution, you can have a single cylinder running at 15:1 and the others at some 11:1 leading your wideband sensor to read some 12:1 on average.
This can lead to piston failure.
it is the same mechanism you lose a piston if one of the fuel injectors has issues.

Big power on a large mix flow should go direct port IMHO

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Mine was direct port when it cracked the ringlands on one cylinder. Distribution isnt an issue. I think with forged pistons I may not of hurt it, but would've over time had I left the tune. Not sure, maybe my afr gauge is off by 1 point lol. Cheers

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

cracked ring lands on hypereutectic cast pistons is a typical failure due to excessive rpm and/or cylinder pressures, i.e. high mechanical loads.
No needs for knock or detonation for that type of failure.
It seems you have found the mechanical limits of your cast pistons then :-)

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

The plug on that cylinder told a different story. Nah in all honesty it was lean or hot at least. When it did it you could actually hear it pinging also. My stuff always do wierd things lol. I'll update after a while to see if it survives with the richer tune.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

G’day guys,

Thought we’d post a quick update to cover off on all the changes we have made over the past few months. We have now upgraded to gen 2 Garrett gtx3071r, Bosch motorsport 1550cc fuel injectors and an in tank Walbro 460 fuel pump. We also made the switch back to direct port water meth injection, using 4x0.6mm direct port check valve jets, along with 2x0.5mm post intercooler jets and 1x0.4 pre turbo jet.

On the dyno a few weeks ago, with ambient air temps reaching 36+ degrees, the car made 277kw/371hp @22 psi without water meth injection. With the water meth on (using a 80/20 methanol/water mix), it made 352kw/471hp @ 30psi and 388kw/520hp @ 35psi. At this point, we reached the knock limit of the engine due to maxing out the flow of the water meth system. We will upgrade this system in the near future in a bid to squeeze a little more from this setup.

Cheers

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

What are you using to validate your 'knock limit'

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Awesome results!!

That's mighty big gains! You would def want to go direct port injection pushing it that hard, you must have a rather large Meth tank with that many nozzles.

What Dyno was this on sorry?

How does it feel to drive now with 35psi? spin the wheels much?? lol

Do you track EGT? what is that looking like?

Well done again!

Rob

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

We are using knock ears and knock link.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

This was on a chassis dyno.

Only driven it on 30psi (352kw) so far. Its actually quite scary to drive. The acceleration is quite brutal, even with traction issues. It broke traction in third gear at 140km!

EGTs were showing a max of 890 degrees C. We see the same EGTs at 21 psi without water meth injection as we do at 35psi with water meth injection.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Go to the Sydney roll drags this Friday night and watch a Datsun (R32) with V6 twin turbo running RWD over 900hp and my traction control set up, only way to do this and its easy to drive, turns scary into fast and easy dare I say it.

I have an R34 GTR customer just finished up now where we are at the limit of an EFR9180 turbocharger (spinning it too fast) it constantly sits on the knock limit (Syvecs ECU) and utilizing all of the power of WM50 with correct fuel mixture allowed by M&W CDI only.

Once you get a handle on some professional electronics and correct ignition you will see what seemed like a limit now is a base line performance level when you and your people involved build some more experience.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

theboostshack, making some good power now :), did you try different mixtures of water/meth like 50/50 etc. Ive tried everything from 10%meth to 60% and made little difference to the knock limit ( reading the plugs ). Whats your fuel flow total and water/meth total? About the same amount of ignition from 21psi to 35psi? Cheers

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Peter,
it is a fair share of power from 1800cc inline 4 in a Datsun 1600 car.

I'd up the water content to 50% by mass at these boost levels.
The higher the boost the better water works.
The direct port injection gets around the distribution issues with the normal central injection.
Methanol will work in big droplets or stream, water not. Water needs the proper distribution to work.
50:50 by weight will likely allow higher boost with the same total mix flow compared to 80:20.

If you get misfires from more water content, you need a better ignition set-up such as a CDI system that Peter aka Riceracing has developed as he was pushing the limits of his rotary engine.
It is established for a long time now, that given you properly inject enough 50:50 mix and your mechanical system and ignition copes, you can run truely silly boost levels.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Thanks Peter. We're still just scratching the surface with water meth injection and have a lot more testing and upgrades planned for the near future. We have had some good fortune after being called on to assist some of Richard's Australian customers. We have been providing assistance with the system selection and procurement, facilitating installation and set up, and assisting with the tuning of Aquamist systems. This year, we plan on building on what we have learnt so far and expand on the service we currently provide to existing and potential Aquamist customers here in Australia.
Cheers.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

M&W CDI is the only way with this if you are serious, we are SERIOUS! :)
100kph to 200kph in 4.951 seconds in fat kunt R34 4WD datsun with OEM syncro gearbox, its fast, reliable and durable. Even with the best semi slick tires we need GPS based traction control to stop uncontrollable wheel spin, WM50 going through all of the below jets!
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum2/vbu...4392#post24392
https://i.imgur.com/09wu44Z.jpg

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Proper jet location for a direct port system. In line, same side and close to fuel injector location. Like it.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Did an EVO10 Bitsashitty today with one of these but no port injection and its not as nice. Also thanks to LR/Syvecs ECU and RR developed knock control strategy it covered the lack luster install which saw the WI line come off!!!

I post that up for the benefit of others, if you are relying on your water injection system and you do not have one of these computers that can counter any eventuality then you are asking for a world of pain.

WI is great but its just like any other sub system in the car, don't come crying or saying XYZ is shit cause your engine detonated. For all the clowns out there who say your are just making it more complex then come talk to me when your ECU and 'Tuna' can counter a fuel injector failure causing instant fuel leak and lean out on one cylinder, saw that last week and again thanks to what we do the ECU (with proper programming) first ramped up the fueling due to loss if fuel pressure, then CLL kicked in as well, and finally after the knock control in the offending cylinder caught within one engine cycle the knock prior to pre igntion starting and shut down that cylinder, all at 8000rpm and we are talking less than one hundred of a second, full power, engine killing event on any other system. 100k engine set up saved, fixed issue, drove home, ran comp test, all pots perfect and back over 1100bhp the next day. WI in this day and age with proper electronics is so easy and safe... its the ultimate in engine performance.

Spend the money once and do it right and it will serve you well, the initial cost is long forgotten but the price for being a cheap ass internet trolling information whore is a painful gift that keeps on giving long after the feeling of saving a few grand getting LINK'd to the wrong ECU and shit advice ;)

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

When I had a priming pump issue with my old pump set-up,
The J&S safeguard knock controller performed a similar rescue. It is a way cruder means of intervention than your sophisticated ECU, but still it was money well spend.
Engine spit flames and bogged, but nothing more happened thanks to an instant 10 deg pull of timing on the offending cylinders.

Any high strung FI motor should have proper knock control and ideally even more layers of safety as you have described.

Overall I can only second what you wrote. Life, Motec etc offer amazing capabilities these days.

I am not a 100% keyboard warrior as most of the stuff I write comes from my own literature research and experiments on my own FI engines over the last 10+ years.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

^ That is what this and all places need, is experienced people with good advice, and not pretenders.

Knock control is a must I agree.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

RR,

Exactly the same setup as mine and location too (Evo X for me).

Question, how do you manage the lines evaporating due to the heat when in traffic? do you have a built in purge?

Cheers
Rob

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

I used extended tip in fueling (accleration fueling) to bridge the fill delay.

With a sophisticated programmable ECU, you could a squirt a litte every minute or so during normal operation with minimal fluid use.
If you use jets with integrated check valves, this is much less of an issue.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

In this application the nozzles have the check valves.
I can put up a graph to show when the WM50 kicks in and the effect on Lambda, as per Richards advice we use his control box, but have the WI status into the ECU, the flow meter output and the strategies are working around that, his box drives the delivery valves.

We run allot of fluid, and even I was surprised at how good it is, the Syvecs S8 has a customer fuel modifier based on the flow meter input, and it manipulates the fuelFinal injection amount accordingly. This car is spastic fast in the first 4 gears and even with all 4 wheels spinning obviously the traction control is taking over and thus you cant use or rely on closed loop fueling so the interactions between both systems is very linear.

Its a car that runs in a hot ambient environment, its not uncommon for us to see AIT (measure inlet to turbo) of over 55 deg C after sitting in traffic and its fueling is always spot on.

Regardless you have to get the fuelMltCll1 to within a tight tolerance and this is especially hard on a port throttle engine like this set up (kept for ultimate response) and I use a complex strategy that takes into account varying and constantly moving map/tip ratio with my own derived air flow correction to suit this specific engine (its never a text book relationship) rather it varies based on the cam specs mostly, regardless its not easy or quick to set up but once done right it works fantastic. This is why I don't rate ANY of the Ve models with a baked in BS set up done by a computer programmer as they don't really understand any of this as they don't make engines themselves nor work on a large variety of them. I find it much better to develop all this yourself and work in true motorsport ECU way in ms defined maps (Life Racing, Syvecs, Cosworth, Bosch, Marrelli etc) and forget all of the crap fudge factors and excuses that get mentioned on the internet LOL.

Off topic but thought I would explain some of the items that can confuse some when running WM50 and then trying to explain why they have a difference in fueling in differing conditions, most cases especially when turbo charged let alone port throttle application there is allot that changes the demands of the engine.

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

'dildos in ass' is the water flow rate input, and the ECU multiplier used, the fuelMultCll1 is a reflect of how accurate the calibration is with the effect of the WM50 going through the engine. So with or without you can see the reaction is very fast and accurate.

https://i.imgur.com/7H9sy8R.jpg

Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2
 

Thanks,

I also have checkvalves and the lines dry up fast, I put it down to evaporatin in the line when in traffic/hot engine and parked - not from the vacuum sucking it through (I live in Singapore where we also see >55deg AIT too). I have to give it some load to start spraying and purge the lines with Water/meth before I can go WOT often.

thanks for your responses.

Rob