Nitromethane from RC Car Fuel?
 

Is there any disadvantage to using RC Car Nitro fuels? Would the % of oil/lubricant in the fuels have any poor effects on a gasoline engine?

I am not sure of nitromethane fuel, it sounds very explosive to me. the top top top fuel dragster uses them. I think the fuel can run the engine alone without and air.

Re: Nitromethane from RC Car Fuel?
 

Are you mixing the nitromethane with water or fuel?

Re: Nitromethane from RC Car Fuel?
 

I have tested with 70% water and 30% nitromethane, the results where great :lol: , next weeks we gonna test with more nitromethane, grtzzzzzz

I saw the a faxed dyno result from John, nearly 70 horses increase from 210, was it your car?

Unfortunately the picture as not clear since the fax print out didn't show the "no water" plot since it was in blue.

No it wasnt my car, that was a Cosworth, it has 70 Hp and 150 Nm more with using my mix. The nex weeks we gonna test with 50/50.

I have a Seat Ibiza 1.8T, i am using a dual pump and dual nozzle and an cooler in the front ,
the power with using the nitromethane mix is 280Whp en 420 NM.

On the dyno my car takes in 4th gear 5.2 secs to the max, with using water with Nitromethane it takes 3.2 secs. I use 2 nozzles 0.5.

Maybe i see you at Birmingham, greetzzz Jack

I was talking to John about the pump seals standing up to the nitromethane, if you are making these crazy power, it is worth making the pump suitable for nitro-up to 50%.

The fax was in dutch and I can't read dutch.

What was your power before Nitromethane/water injection? Are you sure you want to go for 50/50? very explosive!!!

Yes Richard we go testing the next weeks for 50/50, maybe 40/60, we take the Cosworth engine, if it blows than we thake another one.

My Seat had 230 Hp without WIS, first test on the Cosworth and than mine :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ,grtzz

It must be late in Holland.

We will be there between 13th -16th, Hall 10, stand number 10324. There will be new products for the 2005.

30% Nitro give you a gain from 230 -280HP? :shock: Nice :razz:

Yes it does, and a 2 sec. faster power acceleration :lol: :lol: :wink: ,grtz

Do you have a dyno plot availabe to post here?

John has the dyno plots, i ask him tommorow to fax you one, private questions can you ask by pm, grtz

He faxed me one but the blue line doesn't come out so I can not see all the power lines.

I did ask John to email me all the plots but so far I have received nothing.

WAT vertel je me daar!! (sorry, had to type some Dutch).

I mean, beg your pardon!!

50HP more from that mixture?! :shock:

Is that the stuff with oil in it as well, for the 2-stroke engines?
How does that mix with the water at all?
Won't the oil clog the injectors?

I want it I want it I want it!!

Janis (Volvo V40 T4)

Not sure the power increase is 100% due to the nitroM, it appears that the stock power was 230 and with the introduction of higher boost, water and nitroM, the power has risen to 280.

I have not heard of anyone else using this mixing before. It appears that it is a great way to get big power.

Have looked into making a pump suitable for that mixture.

Dunno,

The only Ibiza Cupra 1.8T I know of has 180HP.

Turbo Jacky, please enlighten us. Is the 50HP increase due to WI & nitroM
only, or did you further increase boost.

Anyway. I won't use the stuff untill I'm sure it won't ruin the pump.

Greetz,

Janis

We have just made a prototype p[ump with Teflon seal and it works really well.

Jacky, let me know when you r pump gives you problem and I will send a replacement pump to you. I need to knwo how long would a normal pump last first.

At this moment we have no problems with the system, no problems with the nozzles and pump, even the second pump we use stays fine.

We can't see if we get problems on a longer time, next week i test on the dyno days by Biesheuvel the Cosworth engine an stronger mix, too see if we get more power. Water and Nitro colors like milk.

I come to Birmingham and give you the results, maybay we must change the normal pump for a modified one, i think we can talk at Birmingham about some technical mods :wink: .

During the dyno ill make some photo's and let them mail to yo :lol: , grtzzz

Air Fuel Ratios
 

Did you richen up AFRs by a point for the 30% Nitro test? Are you going to richen up AFRs by 1.5 points when you try a 50% nitro 50% water mix?
Does your wideband properly measure AFRs when using nitro/methanol/petrol mixes?

THX

So far so good :D .


I will bring the teflon sealed pump to Birmingham so that you can put it on one side until the other pump develops problem. I am look forward to see the results in Birmingham.

I wonder the RC nitro contains some oil and caused the milky mix?

Today we tested 66%nitro with 34% water the results where :shock: :lol: great,grtz

Can't wait for the results - :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz:

I have more results from other tested cars, today i mounted a system on a VW Golf VR6, non turbo, the results??? :D :D :D ,grtz

Another one -??? You must bring the result to the show for sure.

No, you must tell us all so we can learn! :wink:

I have not got any results yets from turbojacky.

avoiding problems
 

Just to avoid problems in the future, it would be very much appreciated if you guys would be very careful to specify exactly what mix your running.

I doubt very much you are actually using "66% nitro", more likely your running 66% RC fuel and 34%water, with an RC fuel that consists of methanol with about 15% nitro in it.

That would yield a mix of 34% water, 56.1% methanol, and 9.9% nitro (ignoring the castor oil that is probably in the RC fuel mix)

A little clarification about what Nitro/methanol mixes are available in your area and some effort to standardize the way we talk about the mixture percentages could save some one a very bad experience in the future.

Toward that end how about a standard notation of ;

W/M/N such that above would be 34/56.1/9.9 --- or to use round numbers, 34/56/10.

For those of us that like to experiment with mixed alcohol blends of methanol and ethanol, the same sort of system could be used.

For example a mix of 30% water, 50% methanol and 20% ethanol would be :

W/M/E = 30/50/20

To make the numbering convention universal, the rule could be ;

Water % is always the first number
Alcohols always follow the water stated in order of their molecular weight.
Ie Methanol first , ethanol second, Isopropyl third
Nitro is always last if used --- perhaps require the true nitro percentage to always be enclosed in ( )

That would make the first notation for a 66% RC fuel mix appear as:

34/56/(10)

;)

I will start another thread on mixture notation so we don't clutter this thread up.

Larry

I wanted to reply to turbojacky's post but used the wrong "quote"

So Jack, please share :!:

Nitromethane from RC car fuel?
 

An older book said Nitro should not be mixed with water and
suggested Campfer (spelling?) be used to stretch it if
detonation was feared from pure Nitro. Also suggested other
nasty non burning liquid to mix it with. But luckily it is now
proven that water can be used.
If you burn Nitromethane will that make water like gasoline does?

nitro mix
 

They may have been refering to camphor ( a ketone C10 H16 O ) It is uses as a flavoring agent, in some medical preparations, and as a plasticizer in some explosives. A liquid form is also available -- called camphor oil

The products of combustion would include water, and nitrogen compounds.
Nitromethanes chemical formula is CH3 NO2, and I believe it burns to give carbon dioxide, water and nitric acid (or other nitrogen oxides) as its combustion products. The nitric acid giving it the extremely pungent odor characteristic of a nitro burning car.

My guess is the reaction would be:

1 ( CH3-NO2 ) + 2(O2) = HNO3 + CO2 + H2O

Larry

Due to my poor english I mailed the results to Richard!
He can tell you more now!

grtzzzzz

So where are the results :?:

I am curious :!:

Nitromethane
 

I've found a place locally that sells 100% methanol ,and also 100% nitromethane :lol: , they use them with oil to make up R/C control car fuel.

So I can make a mixture of Methanol water and nitromethane ;)

Is this safe to use as I currently have an aquamist 1s sytem? and if I limited the nitromethane to say 5-10% would that be reasonable?

thanks

Joe

Re: Nitromethane
 

I think the aquamist seal with easily put up with up to 10% of pure nitromethane plus 20% methanol. I can supply teflon seal for the pump if you want to run 100% nitro. :twisted:

Please do not put any oil in the mixture.

I forget to post a well written account of what Jack did during Christmas period:

Here it is:

as promised here are some of my experiences with aquamist. This mail is translated by my little buddy Arno because when I would write this in english, it would take a century and you wouldn''t understand a thing :-)

During our conversation in Birmingham I gave you a couple of Dyno-charts, amongst others I gave you dyno charts of a Volvo T4 and of a Cosworth. I have described our results below.

Volvo T4
Without waterinjection the Volvo T4 was detonating (don't know if this is the right word) at about 180 Hp.
WITH the use of waterinjection, that problem was completely gone. We just used normal water/wiperscreen-fluid.
The power of the engine without waterinjection was 210 Hp, with waterinjection it was increased up to approx 250 Hp, using spray-nozzle 0,5. Nozzel 0,6 and 0,7 seemed to make no difference when we tested them.
The cold weather probably already made the air-flow very cold so i think we almost reached the maximum effect on this car with the use of waterinjection.

Cosworth
At earlier tests at 20degrees outside-temperature we used 20-25% nitro and 80-75% water, you are already familiar with the results of these tests. These results are caused by the weather, the higher the outside temperature is, the better aquamist works.

Last 27 December we had a Dynoday at Biesheuvel, the meaning of this day was to try to beat the results of 2 months ago.
However, due to the low outside-temperature (5-6degrees) this was impossible.
That is why we decided to experiment with the percentage of nitro which we inject.
At 27 december we went up to a mixture of 66% nitro and 34% water to reach the same results as we had 2 months ago.

We also wanted to test the use of 100% pure nitro but the owner of the cosworth was affraid and decided not to.

When the temperature will be a bit higher this summer, we want to test what the effects of different percentages of nitro are at higher outside temperatures.
So you see, I'll keep testing :-)

So far for the Test results of Aqaumist on Engines with a Turbo.

Now for the VW-Golf VR6.
I have installed the Aquamist system on a Golf VR6, which is completely tuned by Schrick. We used the black contact switches which we fitted on to the Inlet valve.
We started with a Spray nozzle of 0,5 but after an hour we switched to 0,6 because the 0,5 was to small.
The used mixture was 50% nitro and 50% water.
We didn't hade the chance yet to take the car for a Dyno, but our feeling tells us that the car reaches his top-power a bit sooner then without nitro.
However I can't yet say what the exact effect is before i had the chance to take it to the Dyno.

Of all the Waterinjection kist we fitted on cars, every customer so far was surprised and they are all very satisfied so far!
The nitro we usually use is Methanol with 16% nitro added to it.

Now for something different, the 5th of March I will go to a new Tuningshop in the Netherlands to give a demonstration of the use of Aquamist. I will be assisted by a Dyno so I can show the people exactly what the effect of Aquamist is.
I would really like it if you could support me this day with some promo material and maybe some mechanical parts which i can use to show the people how it works and to explain all a bit.

Now my last little thing, did you already concidered our offer of the RAM-festival 15/16 may 2005? We would really like your presence on this show, and we are gradually evaluating which people will come so we can look how we are gonna devide the terrain we have at our proposal.

The Netherlands will know the power of waterinjection !!! :-D

Regards,
Jack Veraart

I will post the dyno graphs as given to me by Jack as soon as I borrow a scanner.

Re: Nitromethane
 

More details please, I like to try it on my car - it is not very responsive to paddle pressure - if fact it is very poor. Correction, it does respond for at least 2000ms later. :sad:

Does anyone know if unburned nitromethane or its burned constituents will foul up cats?

Re: Nitromethane
 

So would the lubricants in the RC nitro fuel be bad for the aquamist pump? I'm considering using a 30% nitro RC fuel...

This subject is very interesting. I am also curious if using nitromethane would be compatible with catalytic converters.

I believe part of emission from the engine contains NO or NO2(smaller extent), running Nitro will yield higher percentage of NO2, but I am no expert on it.

Anyone?