Re: Injection amount vs E85
 

I must be reading your graphs wrong but it looks like it starts knocking then pulls 3deg but the knock keeps going up even with the timing pull? How much knock have you seen to actually put aluminium on the porcelain of the spark plugs in a piston engine? Cheers

Re: Injection amount vs E85
 

Yeah you are reading it wrongly, so instantly it takes out timing then it re introduces it after a certain amount of non knocking cycles, then if it knocks again, which it did then it takes out again and it repeats.

Once you do allot of these as I have you can see that once knock starts the engine is 'hot' and it wont really like the introduction of normal levels of timing but each time it varies! so this is why the ECU manages it.

On most cars I do I let the LR take the engine up to its knock limit, its an automatic process and the ECU does a fantastic job of running each chamber to its limit ALL the time :)

Re: Injection amount vs E85
 

Peter,
as I mentioned before I was running a J&S knock controller on my Rover K. Like your ECU, it can pull up to 10 (20 is an other setting for some slow burn chambered motors) of timing within one revolution.
It does this for individual cylinders independent of the other cylinders.

The initial retard is computed from the knock intensity. Ignition timing is then reintroduced by some 2 deg every 10 revolutions or something along the lines.
You can watch this on the gauge. So again, similar to what your ECU does.
I can hear the knock and also hear it disappearing.
Can I react fast enough in case of a catastrophic lean event with my foot? No.
The J&S did that for me. Same for your ECU.
I slowly build up timing and at some point I can start to see knock on the gauge and hear it. Due to the timing regulation of the knock controller, the ticking sound become irregular. It happens, then disappears and then returns. if the timing pull is rather large, you can also feel the power fluctuating. This is then a clear indication that I need to have a look at what's going on.

My ECU did not have all those features integrated, so I added an aftermarket system that provided that functionality.
I for example had fuel starvation in Spa on track with massive misfires. This a typical Elise issues on track once fuel levels drop below some 15l .
Sounded like a machine gun. The J&S did its thing and protected the engine. The gauge lit up like a night club.
Without closed loop knock control, I might have blown the engine.

Overall I am all with you. Ears and feet are not fast enough. Still, I can hear it confirming what the gauge tells me. This not a bad thing.

I know the requirement for fast intervention for a long time and have acted accordingly.
I am not using your particular ECU, witch sounds like it is a nice unit, but a stand alone solution available at the time.
It is not as sophisticated as your ECU, but does its job. No caveman and club to get women here :-) Closed loop fueling (100% of the map) and closed loop knock control.
Never blown an engine since installing the J&S.

Re: Injection amount vs E85
 

J&S is a good thing > http://www.riceracing.com.au/Photos/page%204.4.JPG

Re: Injection amount vs E85
 

I know this is an old thread, very interesting.

I am nowhere near as technical (or smart) as you guys but I have to agree with Rotrex.

I have put my EVO X (4b11T) through it's paces over the last 6 years. It has had two engine builds, 4 different turbos etc etc. Now running Motec M150, 9174 twin EWG, 4" downpipe and exhaust valve, direct port meth (been using this for over 5 years).

We target 0.9 lambda (approx 13.2AFR) measured at the 02 sensor (and also in the exhaust pipe).

I run 1600cc/min in direct port plus 150cc pre turbo and 250cc pre throttle (6 jets). At 2.4bar it runs @ 100% flow (upgraded 300psi pump and line pressure >170psi under max flow).

We tried to add more fuel and make it richer but we lost power. It has been running 0.9 lambda for >4 years now and is very happy healthy engine.

This is 700awhp on mainline and full time attack car.

also I'm runnin 9.0:1 CR

edit: forgot to mention this is on pump fuel 98 and we also use det cans while tuning also. Worth mentioning we run 28deg timing and rev limit is 8,800rpm. we increased ignition timing to 30 degrees, it didn't make anymore power but it didn't knock also.

Re: Injection amount vs E85
 

Mate ^ sounds good, I also completed a 4B11 set up not too long ago, we have each cylinder set to maximum (runs Syvecs). If you want I can post some things here after durability testing is completed

Re: Injection amount vs E85
 

Wow! You are using a lot of water/meth! Probably more than 70% of the fuel injected. Did you try using less water/meth like around 1200cc/min to see if you coud still reach your power goal?

Re: Injection amount vs E85
 

http://www.riceracing.com.au/rides/M...SST_Justin.htm

Another

Re: Injection amount vs E85
 

Why not E85 + water meth? who would be crazy enough to do this? surely it cant make more power and be more durable? imagine indeed kuntz !

Re: Injection amount vs E85
 

So sorry for the delay, I missed this.

Yes! I have been forever upgrading my meth system as we hit it's max flow. I have personally run 5 different flowing jets in my DP setup as I chased more power. The last change was stage 3 cams and 4" downpipe resulting in the need to increase jets again (which is what I am running above). Looking at the logs (and seeing power drop) is very obvious we were running out of jet. upgraded jets solved the problem, we even started them on lower flow rates but had to quickly turn them up to make top end power.

Rob