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Old 23-09-2016, 04:17 PM
rotrex rotrex is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 187
Default Re: WI causing knock?

Methanol quickly evaporates, the water takes much longer. Especially as bigger droplets hits the walls of the plenum in the turns. Just for fun, calculate the g-forces in a turn of a plenum at full chat.
folks running water/meth mixes benefit from the methanol evaporating first and this generating finer droplets of water after the meth has evaporated.
very fine water mist makes it to the cylinders, hence why it can make sense to inject in the air filter housing pre compressor.
the air cooling effect is anyhow not that big compared to what happens in the cylinder. The main effect of water droplets suspended in the cylinder volume happens after ignition as the flame front develops.

Here you see a picture of my pistons using direct port injection with the jets in the straight sections right before the fuel injectors. Spray hits the intake valves both at the front and the rear of the valve. The bigger droplets move straight down and hit the front and the rear of the pistons. the finer mist stays in the volume and supresses knock.




here is a picture of one of my old pistons. it was also used with direct port injection, but with jets on top of curved runners. Most of the fluid was centrifuged out of the air stream and entered the cylinder as a fluid stream with little spray left. on closer inspection, you could see where streams of water run across the piston.



Here is how flow in a cylinder looks like. this gets you an idea on how the blanc spots develop with proper direct port injection.



this one nicely shows the path the fuel takes if sprayed properly. Any big droplets do not make the turn and hit the front and rear piston crown. This perfectly matches the blank spots on my pistons.
Image the turns the spray has to take being injected after the IC. lots of tight turns removing droplets. This is IMHO also why folks have better success with higher methanol concentrations. it evaporates even as a film or stream and being a high octane fuel. water as a stream does very little. It passes straight through the engine into the exhaust.
Look at old pictures of the WRC Subaru using Aquamist 2c systems with direct port. they mounted the jets in the very last turn pointing straight down into the inlet port. They were only allowed to use 100% due to regulations. without that straight shot into the inlet port of the cylinder head, most water would do very little as a big percentage would have been centrifuged out against the walls of the runner.


Here is a photo showing the water rail for cylinders 2 and 4. Water injectors are mounted at the "knee" of each intake manifold "leg" and Subaru called this direct water injection.






you can get software to remap the OEM ECU you are using very much like the flash tunes. Just search for VAG software and your ECU model. As legal or illegal for your hillclimbs as the tunes you are using now. No aftermarket ECU required.

Last edited by rotrex; 24-09-2016 at 09:27 AM.
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