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Old 01-01-2011, 12:07 AM
RICE RACING RICE RACING is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Utopia
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Default Re: Merits of water in a mainly methanol mixture?.

^ massive flaws yes.

The "oxygen" in all alcohol fuels is already USED in the chemical bond of the fuel! it's not adding extra oxygen to the combustion chamber at all, just as E85 fuel does not ......... This is a classic mistake people make. Or what I should say its carrying of "extra oxygen" means its very low on power density and you need to take up more space by throwing in up to double the amount to do the same job you can with proper gasoline! *extra fuel weight* extra pumps, extra injectors....... all cause its an inefficient fuel! This is why it was never used in GP racing after the 30's 40's in supercharged cars, you are always filling them up and they are SLOW as a result, same for air planes not a single one using straight alcohol fuel as its very poor as a total system package. E85 was also scrapped in the 30's after the Govt of the day tried to pull the con on people back then, but people then were smarted and did not buy the rubbish as cars went less distance on it as the power density is worse............ this is true of ALL MAJORITY ALCOHOL FUELS.

The only derived benefit is the extra cooling the alcohol can do to the intake charge (as its power density is far inferior to gasoline or petrol) and you are injecting double the qty of what your would with real fuel. Thus the temperature drop due to vaporization *of double the fuel qty!* is where you get the charge density increase from and its NOT from the extra oxygen in the fuel chemistry its self.

Many efficient engines, make more power on gasoline than they do on any alcohol blended or total fuels, why? cause they can aspirate in more actual air! and its not overtaken by fuel, you need air to burn fuel not more fuel. This is why one a not so rich or near ideal 15% RICH AFR setting you can make more power V's a 20% over stoich RICH fuel setting, you are burning more of the fuel as there is more air and oxygen free to combine with the hydrocarbons in the combustion chamber, AS ALWAYS heat control is your enemy especially in octane sensitive true pump petrol fuels, THIS IS WHY WE USE WATER INJECTION! < It's the most effective way to control temperature and relive maximum heat with minimal loss of volume of power producing air/oxygen. And its the ONLY injectant that can yield MAXIMUM temp reduction in conjunction with MAXIMUM base fuel reduction while still allowing MAXIMUM power production.............. no Alcohol fuel is capable of this be it by internet claim or fact

It is only inefficient engines that are knock limited or have poor combustion chamber designs that will benefit from the extra cooling alcohol gives due to needing to run many times more of the stuff due to its inferior power density. So whenever you can throw in more ignition timing to get near the BMEP or use less fuel cooling taking up space of aspirated air then of course you can see marginal gains running the inferior fuels.

Water is a far better way of cooling the engine. AND it allows you to run much less main fuel (and aspirate more air!) which always makes more power! WHY? cause you are using less inferior fuel for cooling the engine internals and aspirating more air which contains free oxygen that takes part in the combustion process and makes more power.

One of the best combination's to make power is gasoline at the right RATIO + Water Injection *again at the right ratio to the main fuel supply* (at a ratio of 50/50 by mass with alcohol). This gives maximum power generation, minimal TOTAL fuel usage, and excellent engine cooling. All other solutions are a net negative for either power generation or vehicular performance. You only need to look at the aviation world where power, speed, reliability and power density to weight are all PRIME OBJECTIVES of internal combustion. You wont see ANY Methanol only fuel planes or Meth injected planes, but you will see base gasoline fueled ones combined with water/methanol injection at 50/50 ratio
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Last edited by RICE RACING; 01-01-2011 at 12:22 AM.
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