Injecting prior to turbo comp' impellers - Page 16

janis · #**151** 03-04-2005, 09:48 AM

I tried to make pictures of my 4 year old turbo that has 112.000 Miles on it but I don't seem to be able to make sharp pictures like you PuntoRex.

Anyway, my point is. My compressorwheel doesn't look as damaged as yours, the edges are still sharp, well, not 100%, but better than your wheel.

My pre-turbo-injection plans just went into the fridge...

Sorry to hear it didn't work out in your case!

Janis

Richard L · #**152** 03-04-2005, 10:06 AM

How accessible is your turbo inlet area. Is there a room to accommdate an inline narrow angle nozzle (super-fine droplet) right in front of the turbo blades?

janis · #**153** 03-04-2005, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard L

How accessible is your turbo inlet area. Is there a room to accommdate an inline narrow angle nozzle (super-fine droplet) right in front of the turbo blades?

The hose to my turbo looks very much like puntorex's. I'd have to mount the nozzle in the bend of the hose.

Richard L · #**154** 03-04-2005, 11:43 AM

hmmm... not so simple.

May be puttng a 1mm ridged sleeve inside the bore of the turbo inlet will do the trick, just try to explore hotrod's idea.

PuntoRex · #**155** 03-04-2005, 12:21 PM

janis,

I took that picture by a Canon digital camera, with the built-in flash light & close up mode.

With the turbo in car, it's very hard to get a good angle, I just guessed & saw what I got.

Richard,

How narrow spray pattern you can get with a fine enough droplet?
At the elbow near inlet, I think maybe it's more easily to aim the target, like this:

Or in a straight pipe, the co-axial nozzle is more difficult to install. However, the air flow would probably tilt the water injection pattern near the turn.

Richard L · #**156** 03-04-2005, 12:36 PM

PuntoRex,

I can try making it as narrow as possible - need to do some experiemnts after designing it.

Cound this sleeve adaptor arrangement work on an existing nozzle?

masterp2 · #**157** 03-04-2005, 02:25 PM

You guys are really talented. Very impressed with this concert effort.

Another 2 cents? Any mod in the airstream coaxially (off the wall) is going to be hydraulicly restrictive, defeating the improvements sought. Especially anything that reduces the apparent inlet diameter at the turbo inlet mouth (such as an ID sleeve), as this part of the housing is probably finely engineered to work correctly by an aero engineer.. IOW, I believe you may very much disrupt the intended airflow characteristic, angle of incidence, to the blades. These are just my educated guesses. I never designed turbos, so a better opinion is needed. But I do understand aero and hydraulic engineering concepts.

I can't see the benefit of this sleeve, then perhaps I'm not understanding. If the purpose of it, is to form a step that diverts pooled water toward the center of the blade, how can that be done without severely pinching off air flow/reducing inlet ID?

Richard L · #**158** 03-04-2005, 02:39 PM

May be it is just effective to bore the ID by 2mm just short of the turbine tips.

masterp2 · #**159** 03-04-2005, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuntoRex

janis,

Or in a straight pipe, the co-axial nozzle is more difficult to install. However, the air flow would probably tilt the water injection pattern near the turn.

I like! Concepts to keep in mind. The heavier the drop, the harder it is to change its direction, or put another way when considering spray before a bend: a more coarse spray will have more collisions at the bend (collecting a larger stream). Hope that makes sense, it is a key concept.

The finest spray possible, in a conduit with the least change in direction, when concentrically implimented, using the largest diameter conduit, smallest practical cone pattern, at the highest possible conduit airspeed, will produce the least pooling. Nonetheless errosion WILL occur if a significant fraction is over about 40 micron, due to impingement. I do believe that the above outlines how to drastically (90%) minimize the occurence.

Another thing to consider. If a turbo ranges 0-15 lbs of boost, what good does it do, from a performance perspective, to spray it at 10 psi? Answer: none

You don't get the maximum vehicle performance until the foot is on the floor, 15 psi. To enhance top end, spray at 13 or 14. That change alone just reduced exposure and water damage 50% maybe (even using the wall nozzle). Moderation, properly implimented, is key. You guys with photographic baselines, probably are going to be the likely candidates for testing something here, not much to lose at this point. Please consider it.

masterp2 · #**160** 03-04-2005, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard L

May be it is just effective to bore the ID by 2mm just short of the turbine tips.

Here again, I will make my opinion, but in no way should you stop the thought process. This is a wonderful collaberation.

I am fairly certain that the turbo compressor is designed around the concept of "specified inlet" flow. (if someone can say I am wrong then the following is meaningless)

A notch at the turbo inlet could be turbo suicide, if it induces stall. If it does, you will know right away, water or no water. On the other hand, maybe you stumbled onto a very rich patentable idea, like the golfball dimples.

Edited: for clarity