A few questions concerning preTurbo water injection

[parmas]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

It is quite easy if given enough information to work out the current thermal efficiency of the OP's engine set up.

I can tell you for a fact from my experience that the token gains from increasing ~22BTDC will be FAR MORE DETRIMENTAL to the health of his engine V's unleashing the power from extra boost pressure and the associated density increase it will offer and thus power level.

I can not overstate the DANGER is screwing around with advance to chase power especially when you are talking 98 oct petrol and the level you are starting at now.

I have worked on lots of engine types from 6.0:1 compression to 10:1 compression and all types of porting and camshaft specifications, from 98 oct petrol to methanol and let me tell you there is little gain and lots of grief in chasing token gains by using garbage advise Re ign timing and water injection crack pot internet theories by people who have only read about it rather than do it over decades.

If you provide me with pertinent details on my email or here? I will run the calculation for you.

I currently as a working teaching aid have a car at ~26% thermal efficiency and on the maximum of the standard fuel system and will fit a pre turbo WM50 system to it and show the results, that engine runs 8.5:1 CR and spark lead much less than what is being discussed here with same Lambda of the pure petrol first up test.

Excessive spark lead is the biggest killer of engines, and a very mis understood topic, and one lots of people get wrong, especially when trying to chase power gains.

From all the posts you made, you seem obsessed with me as you are showing. And if you have ever done anything in your life, why are you subscribing in all forums and wasting your time, are you a pensioner already?

[mrx79]

Hi,

Rice said that because i lost boost and if you take that into acount the Tq with WI and the same boost level as without should be the same.

Please don't get offensive. Thats not worth it, even if you have different philosophies.

I appreciate both of your helps.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by parmas

"I am no business but I tune engines from qualified experts lessons who know how to get the job done as it should"

LOL! qualified by who and what????? a two day cornflakes packet course does not count!!!!

What engines??????

What experience with water injection do you have apart from random internet quotes from crap sites????????

I await the entertainment LOL.

You just handed out false statements and generalities from dubious laughable sources, and have shown nothing of your own, you could not even pick up that he is making like for like power on the same absolute pressure.......... i think you need to go to a proper school! and be taught by real teachers, not self professed ones with cornflakes packet quality qualifications LOL.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by parmas

From all the posts you made, you seem obsessed with me ?

No however I can pick an idiot when I see one, you sir are that! Just highlighting your poor advice, dubious experience, and lack of total understanding on this topic.

You are not qualified to be handing out advice to people, especially giving them a bum steer that will end in tears, based off your obviously limited ability and experience on the said subject.

Like I said this is not a rubbish forum for re hashed 'opinions', people who hand out advise here generally have done the work themselves and can prove it, and have the back ground to comment, you have neither!

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by parmas

And if you have ever done anything in your life, why are you subscribing in all forums and wasting your time, are you a pensioner already?

I've done more than you EVER WILL even if you lived to 1000 years of age!
I share my own personal knowledge and experience on selected forums cause I can! and I know what I am doing! and I happily help people out with my experience! why????????? cause I like others to enjoy the same as I have in my long journey learning all of this myself! not reading off others or rehashing some crap written by a clown who has done some 2 day course off the internet or in some pay to play crap fest that is all the rage today.

I work as a professional teacher!
I still do my business!
I still find time to share and help others!

Because I love what I have dedicated my life too, engineering and its application especially in manufacturing and internal combustion engines........ I do not live a dream on the internet like most wishing I am doing this for a living, I actually do it! Everyday I help people face to face and over the world via various mediums, people seek me out cause what I say is correct and it works! it saves them time money, and heat ache.

I am happy to be altruistic in that sense to give back to others what I have gained in my long life doing this job.........................

It shits me when I read crap posts, dolling out information that obviously is wrong and is doing a dis service to others who will be unfortunate enough to read it, especially here where we have been immune to an extent from gross generalities and spurious 'lifted' advise portraying to be 'knowledge' or otherwise.

Like I said, I'll have respect for you and what you are saying when you prove to me what you have done in this field. NOT until that time. IF however you feel the need to try to denigrate me for working out you are nothing more than a poster of generalities and someone who has obviously limited experience in this field then I will give you what you deserve, and others will benefit in knowing that they should not waste their time reading your garbage postings, be they of thin technical merit, or casting aspersions about genuinely capable people such as myself.

[parmas]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

I've done more than you EVER WILL even if you lived to 1000 years of age!
I share my own personal knowledge and experience on selected forums cause I can! and I know what I am doing! and I happily help people out with my experience! why????????? cause I like others to enjoy the same as I have in my long journey learning all of this myself! not reading off others or rehashing some crap written by a clown who has done some 2 day course off the internet or in some pay to play crap fest that is all the rage today.

I work as a professional teacher!
I still do my business!
I still find time to share and help others!

Because I love what I have dedicated my life too, engineering and its application especially in manufacturing and internal combustion engines........ I do not live a dream on the internet like most wishing I am doing this for a living, I actually do it! Everyday I help people face to face and over the world via various mediums, people seek me out cause what I say is correct and it works! it saves them time money, and heat ache.

I am happy to be altruistic in that sense to give back to others what I have gained in my long life doing this job.........................

It shits me when I read crap posts, dolling out information that obviously is wrong and is doing a dis service to others who will be unfortunate enough to read it, especially here where we have been immune to an extent from gross generalities and spurious 'lifted' advise portraying to be 'knowledge' or otherwise.

Like I said, I'll have respect for you and what you are saying when you prove to me what you have done in this field. NOT until that time. IF however you feel the need to try to denigrate me for working out you are nothing more than a poster of generalities and someone who has obviously limited experience in this field then I will give you what you deserve, and others will benefit in knowing that they should not waste their time reading your garbage postings, be they of thin technical merit, or casting aspersions about genuinely capable people such as myself.

My job is not a teacher but an enthusiast tuner who have years of experience on tuning engines. But I am not here to judge and play roll the dice here. I don't think I am a GOD who knows everthing cause I am here to increase my knowledge and to give mine. No tuner works the same that doesn't mean they are all wrong.

Now for the fact you are a teacher with 1000years of experience and willing to give your 2 cents for all sakes out here, give us your good opinion on what a good man need to Do/Consider/Check to make his own tune for the first time using water injection. Let's name the article : HOW TO PROPERLY TUNE FOR WATER INJECTION by Rice Racing and you could manage a sticky

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by parmas

My job is not a teacher but an enthusiast tuner who have years of experience on tuning engines. But I am not here to judge and play roll the dice here. I don't think I am a GOD who knows everthing cause I am here to increase my knowledge and to give mine. No tuner works the same that doesn't mean they are all wrong.

Now for the fact you are a teacher with 1000years of experience and willing to give your 2 cents for all sakes out here, give us your good opinion on what a good man need to Do/Consider/Check to make his own tune for the first time using water injection. Let's name the article : HOW TO PROPERLY TUNE FOR WATER INJECTION by Rice Racing and you could manage a sticky

Don't come here and stir shit: (we have a great place here, has been that way for a LONG time).

Hand out advice if you personally have it and are capable of backing it up, it is a simple rule. That applies to you me, Richard, anyone, that is how we operate here.
No one starts an argument or makes blanket statements, if you have something of merit then share it and post it, if you want to contribute, this is not hard to do.

I do not make a point of sticking my nose in all the threads or 'stalking people' I am too good for that, and too busy, I only came here as I was asked to by the original poster. (no commercial involvement at all *for disclosure*)

If you can help him then go ahead, I did read your topic on your 300bhp car where you are trialing some items and documenting them, keep it up and share your 'experience', I suggest to you then hand out advice and guidance, it will be more worth while to your self and others reading it.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by mrx79

Hi,

Rice said that because i lost boost and if you take that into acount the Tq with WI and the same boost level as without should be the same.

Please don't get offensive. Thats not worth it, even if you have different philosophies.

I appreciate both of your helps.

Thanks for sharing your set up with me, it's true these days I don't really doll out advice as I used to do for free, and its pretty rare for me to post here as I use to do so fairly frequently. I'm happy to help you out and look forward to an e-mail of the updates and retests you will conduct on your car.

I am doing up a general 'advice' type material resource where it broaches many topics around performance vehicles (running a course on this @ the Institute I teach at) one workshop dyno mule (2lt turbo 6 cylinder) I will fit up a pre turbo water injection system (hopefully this week) though finding time to complete everything is always a challenge!!!

This test vehicle is fitted out with its own Race Logic VBOX mini and mini input module and I'll take some logs of various basic parameters along with dyno outputs associated, in the last month have done about 10 different engine maps, and now she is at its maximum on the standard fuel system, in this cars case I am fitting water injection (with WM50) to extend the power potential while keeping the engine still safe, as its a teaching aid she cops lots of abuse and needs to be ultra reliable. This car will be interesting as its a more common power level and set up for a majority of users (~350bhp *engine power*) and sane boost of 2000millibar absolute. Allot of similar issues you and my mate parmas will face I hope to cover and document.... since its a teaching based learning resource I'll be happy to share parts if not all of it here for anyone interested.

Till then, good luck with your testing and I will help when I can over email.

[parmas]

Peter, you used the word "HELP" many times here in this thread but in all the posts you made in this thread you showed no real help at all but more like NOooo don't do it! It will ruin your motor!

Now we are all scared not to even try to put our eyes on the engine bay cause we believed in what is going to be a dead end.

What do we do now, since our lovely teacher doesn't doll out advices for free as he used to do?

Do I need to pay a dollar a day to read this forum or maybe it's more worth it to give him a call and make me the day!

Sorry peter, but you are the one who should be ashamed off doing business on a public forum to reach to customers for free advertising. If I am mad as you said before, then do us a favor and post the general rules to detail how to generally tune or troubleshoot water injection systems. That 20 year knowledge would better be used under one thread for all the people in this forum.

IF NOT... then here we are trying to learn while you try to scare for a ?$ a day !

[UCTURBO]

Isnt the main reason you go to WI to increase boost or timing? Not trying to cause shit, its just what Ive always thought? As whenever I give an engine water without more advance or boost, it makes less power? But with both it makes lots more power Cheers