waterinjection.info  

Go Back   waterinjection.info > Other > Gallery - NEW

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #461  
Old 10-12-2019, 10:01 PM
RICE RACING RICE RACING is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Utopia
Posts: 483
Default Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rub20B View Post
I assume here you mean per rotor? an NA streetport REW engine (9:1) at sealevel with xcessive LIM makes 170-180 crank hp.

Offcourse as you say depending on the knock tolerance of the fuel the spark efficiency will generally get lower the higher the chamber chrarge and charge temp.

I will post here how it turns out.

At work we ran 1 cyl DI development engine with a pre chamber, 10:1 CR, port water inj at 7000 rpm 32 bar bmep with lambda 1 and optimal spark (50% burn around 8 deg atdc). water rate 50 to 55% of fuel mass. this is could be considered state of the art but if the water stops piston is gone before you can count to 10.

I assume on this evo you could run similar water rate but perhaps are still a bit more knock limited. the burn duration of the pre chamber combustion process is very short, giving the mixture less time to knock. Do you have cylinder pressure indication system? I would be interested what kind of spark efficiency can be reached on a port fueled engine running these loads and pump fuel.
180/2.616 = ~69bhp/lt/bar
NA engines always runs worse map/tip which effects the power output in a negative manner, and without knowing what level of street port as well means that your figure could be in the mean average of what to expect?

Video here to watch > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hlbcnjc53mE



Maybe easier to email me mate?
__________________
http://www.riceracing.com.au
RICESP > F40 > Zonda > ZR1
Water Injection Specialist
"Can't be defeated!, don't know the word!, shoulder to shoulder!, we'll fight the world!, WE CAN'T BE BEATEN!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #462  
Old 10-12-2019, 10:17 PM
RICE RACING RICE RACING is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Utopia
Posts: 483
Default Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7

On the EVO the car is turbo charger limited.
As far as I can remember even with the RRWEP based old school WI kits regardless of turbocharger its always been the case that you end up turbo limited.
In modern context say in Borg Warner in EFR range, the largest one they make despite running any engine type and specification the critical speed of them is the thing that limits the power is what I have found personally.
In the Life Racing/Syvecs ECU the below is always a control element that is active.
__________________
http://www.riceracing.com.au
RICESP > F40 > Zonda > ZR1
Water Injection Specialist
"Can't be defeated!, don't know the word!, shoulder to shoulder!, we'll fight the world!, WE CAN'T BE BEATEN!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #463  
Old 10-12-2019, 10:24 PM
RICE RACING RICE RACING is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Utopia
Posts: 483
Default Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rub20B View Post
I assume here you mean per rotor? an NA streetport REW engine (9:1) at sealevel with xcessive LIM makes 170-180 crank hp.
Turbocharged 13B-REW

Stock




Street ported with basic mods



__________________
http://www.riceracing.com.au
RICESP > F40 > Zonda > ZR1
Water Injection Specialist
"Can't be defeated!, don't know the word!, shoulder to shoulder!, we'll fight the world!, WE CAN'T BE BEATEN!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #464  
Old 10-12-2019, 10:39 PM
RICE RACING RICE RACING is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Utopia
Posts: 483
Lightbulb Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rub20B View Post
port water inj at 7000 rpm 32 bar bmep with lambda 1 and optimal spark (50% burn around 8 deg atdc). water rate 50 to 55% of fuel mass. this is could be considered state of the art but if the water stops piston is gone before you can count to 10.
I currently use WM50 to allow proper cylinder balancing of engines based on LOP methodology using my own specification/made EGT probes. Swing between 0.800 to 1.160 looking at rate of change and trimming each as required.

Again another great use of water injection.

Its not known cause I don't share everything, but ~20 years ago I ran 350+rwkw on a 13B turbo at 1 lambda with pre turbo injection, this was by accident actually, but was the first time I had viewed it, the dyno operator could not believe! it and thought his probe was wrong? as there was no way in hell a turbo rotary on pump petrol could do such a thing and live. In the end we did 5 consecutive runs all between 349rwkw and 357rwkw all at 1.000 Lambda or thereabouts !
__________________
http://www.riceracing.com.au
RICESP > F40 > Zonda > ZR1
Water Injection Specialist
"Can't be defeated!, don't know the word!, shoulder to shoulder!, we'll fight the world!, WE CAN'T BE BEATEN!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #465  
Old 11-12-2019, 11:28 PM
Rub20B Rub20B is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9
Default Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7

Lam 1 is future with eu7. Its either water injection (port or DI or emulsion) or cut power. These integrated exh manifolds help a bit to stay longer stoichiometric but yes the water opens a whole new level of keeping efficiency even at bmep > 30 bar.

Ill send an email about a other car I am building. I assumed when you said per liter you meant 360* equivalent, with 2.6l or 270* of offcourse makes alot more sense.

In this car I have 2 decent egt probes but the issue here is that im using a australian ecu that relies on an innovate tc4 which is the greatest crap after dog poo really... 20* error where it counts on channel 2. Channel 1 is pretty close. Channel 3-4 are completely off..

For the efr they have now there ‘black series’ which is actually just a bigger trim compressor wheel on the same turbine. If you can stay away from surge it will bring more top end. What you also can do is look in the SXE range. They have a different (better) geometry of comp housing. It drops on the ‘classic’ efr range. It helps both surge and choke zone. Look at the efr76 and sxe map. Same wheel. Using the sxe housing on an efr76 which I made into a s300v vgt housing it made a day and night difference. I spoke with BW and since this year they offer the sxe housing option in their catalog.

Last edited by Rub20B; 11-12-2019 at 11:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #466  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:59 AM
Rub20B Rub20B is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9
Default Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7

Quote:
^ They excel at making rubbish items, yet they still sell them. I put it down to generation retard, what is lost today is the ability to think critically and to use basics taught in 'legitimate schools' to cross check or validate a result. Their whole line up is dodgy as f*ck as you have shown. Imagine if someone took for granted that this was correct and then applied the miss understood reading of an EGT probe to try and equalize for temperature, no wonder there are so many problems from user basic skill set to implementation. Poor engines
Yes a d you know these roadrage turbo speed convertors that where some years ago sold as standard for the EFR range theyre even worse. I had 2 of them bought on the same day and there was over 10% difference in the rate ( v/krpm)

Hard to believe they can make something so simple so bad and even ask money for it.. Thesedays l rely on frequency input if the ecu has or of not all it takes is a lm2917 and a good resistor and capacitor.
Reply With Quote
  #467  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:08 AM
RICE RACING RICE RACING is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Utopia
Posts: 483
Default Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rub20B View Post
Yes a d you know these roadrage turbo speed convertors that where some years ago sold as standard for the EFR range theyre even worse. I had 2 of them bought on the same day and there was over 10% difference in the rate ( v/krpm)

Hard to believe they can make something so simple so bad and even ask money for it.. Thesedays l rely on frequency input if the ecu has or of not all it takes is a lm2917 and a good resistor and capacitor.
oh really just goes to prove you have to question and know how to sort the shit from the clay
Thanks for posting the clip of your Omega Engineering meter, I bought one of them today to have a secondary item to my main one.
__________________
http://www.riceracing.com.au
RICESP > F40 > Zonda > ZR1
Water Injection Specialist
"Can't be defeated!, don't know the word!, shoulder to shoulder!, we'll fight the world!, WE CAN'T BE BEATEN!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #468  
Old 15-12-2019, 04:30 AM
RICE RACING RICE RACING is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Utopia
Posts: 483
Default Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7

Tested a fine wire K type probe and also fed through the Syvecs KT8, will have the omega engineering and eti instruments soon to do more validations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXbO9O8_P0k&t=77s

^ check it out

__________________
http://www.riceracing.com.au
RICESP > F40 > Zonda > ZR1
Water Injection Specialist
"Can't be defeated!, don't know the word!, shoulder to shoulder!, we'll fight the world!, WE CAN'T BE BEATEN!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #469  
Old 16-12-2019, 11:08 AM
Rub20B Rub20B is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9
Default Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7

I reckon the black probe is the open element one? the others are colder because the insulation jackets transfers some heat down? What probe would you recommend peter? At the moment I use the 3mm ones from RS with the inconel 600 outer sheet, PN 824-0675

They aren't fast but last multiple race seasons in our rx-3 PP. the ones with stainless outer sheet usually failed in 1 or 2 races. we run max 950 egt but run the engine mostly between 7 and 9k rpm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CExNDVC1WI in this movie if you put quality to 1080p you can get an idea of the response time

Last edited by Rub20B; 16-12-2019 at 11:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #470  
Old 16-12-2019, 12:41 PM
RICE RACING RICE RACING is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Utopia
Posts: 483
Default Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rub20B View Post
I reckon the black probe is the open element one? the others are colder because the insulation jackets transfers some heat down? What probe would you recommend peter? At the moment I use the 3mm ones from RS with the inconel 600 outer sheet, PN 824-0675

They aren't fast but last multiple race seasons in our rx-3 PP. the ones with stainless outer sheet usually failed in 1 or 2 races. we run max 950 egt but run the engine mostly between 7 and 9k rpm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CExNDVC1WI in this movie if you put quality to 1080p you can get an idea of the response time
Hi Mate,

Yes the heat transfer is the issue.
My probes are Inconel 600 as you know these are the only things that last, SS is cheap and nasty not suitable for anything but maybe 2 stroke bikes etc.
If you want some or more detail etc shoot me an email peter@riceracing.com.au
I took my latest video for a bloke on here who wants to use these for turbo compressor exit temperature, they are very fast.

Will take a look at your video now
__________________
http://www.riceracing.com.au
RICESP > F40 > Zonda > ZR1
Water Injection Specialist
"Can't be defeated!, don't know the word!, shoulder to shoulder!, we'll fight the world!, WE CAN'T BE BEATEN!!!"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.