Custom made WI with a fail save system (see drawing inside)

[BlackWolf]

Drawing updated, I have to admit it is getting really annoying to edit a full drawing in Photoshop, especially if it?s a mixed mechanical and electrical drawing that needs to be small as possible to fit on a forum page. :shock: :razz:




Extras in this drawing, after first drawing above:
- As I said the pump is constantly on and will work on its own demand switch but will be off when the water tank is empty.
- Shurflo pumps have external wire for demand switch to turn the pump on, I used that for ?pump on? led.
- Turbo pressure switches will turn on first block-off solenoid and second dedicated solenoid for the nozzle.
- There are two water pressure switches just before both nozzles, these switches will show when there is a clogged nozzle if the led stays on while there is no boost.
- The low-pressure water switch will cut turbo pressure if the water pressure is gone (busted water line).

[BlackWolf]

Originally Posted by hotrod

Yes you should increase the bladder pressure --- on my accumulator they had a little data sheet in the box that gives recommendations on the pressure. If I remember correctly the bladder should be pressurized to about the same pressure as the low limit of the expected fluid pressure. I think I charged mine to 85 PSI for a 100 psi system.

If you don't increase the charge pressure the water will squeeze the bladder down so small you will have almost all fluid in the accumulator and no gas in the bladder to help it hold pressure as the fluid is released.

Shurflo may have a data sheet for that accumulator on their web site but I would have to look around for it.

Here is is --- http://www.shurflo.com/pages/Food_Se.../911-378-P.pdf

Larry

Thanks, I didn?t check the pdf file yet, but from what I understood the accumulator has maximum operating pressure of 125psi, so I will charge it to 110psi and than set pump demand off to 130 and turn on to 110psi. (pump is adjustable between 120 and 140 to turn off)

[hotrod]

There is a caution in that doc regarding how to pressurize the bladder!!

You need to do it with no pressure in the liquid lines and at least one open connection.

Larry

[BlackWolf]

Thanks Larry,

I received the accumulator today and it is not the model I ordered, it has male connections unlike the one above picture and it is pre-charged to 30psi. There was also a connection with both sides female in the package.

The model number is 182-200, and this is the manual:
http://www.depcopump.com/datasheets/...n%20manual.pdf

It is better for my setup since it has 2 male connections, it will make the installation easier, I also have Shurflo inline filter, I don?t understand why they designed to install after the pump, but I can screw the pump, filter and accumulator together.

I will post some pictures when I receive the pump all hooked together.
This is my Shurflo filter:

[BlackWolf]

All pieces are almost complete, I am waiting on one extra water pressure sensor and 2 time delayed relays.

In the picture below you will see a small display, I already have that laying around, with that display I am going to make an flow meter in my system I know what to get for measuring the flow. I have also a oil pressure gauge with a sensor but that will be overkill.

When I receive everything I will start to build the system on a stainless plate and keep everything close as possible, this way it is easier to remove the system when its needed.

This is what I got so far:

[BlackWolf]

Here I am again, this time with questions.

I got couple things to couple the filter, pump and accumulator together. The couplers are aluminum but anodized (Blue ones on the picture below). Does that go along with methanol? Since aluminum gives problems with aluminum, but it is anodized so it should be ok right?

After assembling these 3 things together, it seems to big and it wont fit anywhere in my engine bay so I decided to make a stainless water tank in the boot and mount the pump and accumulator next to it.
Since the distance gets bigger to the nozzles do I need a primer pump? It is for 2 x 75cc/m @ 100 psi nozzles. I think shurflo pump with accumulator can cover this distance, but I want to be sure.

I also get myself a nice pressure gauge with 16bar (232psi) range, it should be more than enough for this system. Gauge is 40mm and it is easy to install somewhere in the dash. I am still going to make a digital custom flow gauge next to this one.

Here my assembly:


Here my pressure gauge:

[hotrod]

I have a similar setup, with a shureflow in the trunk and the accumulator (same as yours) in the engine bay. I had to pull the accumulator out when I recently put in a front mount so I am re-doing everything.

I also have anodized aluminum fittings --- no problems on 50% -70% methanol blends.

put a restrictor in front of the gauge the shurflo has a very strong pressure surge as it pumps, that has broken gauges for at least two of us. Mine only lived for about 20 minutes.

Richard suggests threading a fine thread allen screw into the feed hose going to the gauge. There will be enough flow past the threads to register pressure but it will damp most of the surge.

As far as distance goes it all depends on how you configure the system. People that control the spray by turning on and off the pump need to have the pump close to the nozzle. If you have an accumulator in the system you can't do it that way becasue of the time delay to pressureize the accumulator.

If you are running an accumulator you usually have a solenoid to trigger the spray (as you show in your diagram). If you place that near the jets it does not matter how long the fluid path is as the fluid line will be pressurized all the time. That is the way I had mine set up. The solenoid was only inches from the jet, and the accumulator was between the solenoid and the pump with the line at full pressure all the time the car was running.

Larry

[BlackWolf]

Originally Posted by hotrod

I have a similar setup, with a shureflow in the trunk and the accumulator (same as yours) in the engine bay. I had to pull the accumulator out when I recently put in a front mount so I am re-doing everything.

I also have anodized aluminum fittings --- no problems on 50% -70% methanol blends.

That is good to know, thank you

Originally Posted by hotrod

put a restrictor in front of the gauge the shurflo has a very strong pressure surge as it pumps, that has broken gauges for at least two of us. Mine only lived for about 20 minutes.

Richard suggests threading a fine thread allen screw into the feed hose going to the gauge. There will be enough flow past the threads to register pressure but it will damp most of the surge.

Yes, I read that and have already 5mm allen screw, but to make sure I took a wide range pressure so it should take all that beating, I am also going to change my hose which came with the set, it is black but I want a see through hose so I can see if there is air bubbles in the line.

Originally Posted by hotrod

As far as distance goes it all depends on how you configure the system. People that control the spray by turning on and off the pump need to have the pump close to the nozzle. If you have an accumulator in the system you can't do it that way becasue of the time delay to pressureize the accumulator.

If you are running an accumulator you usually have a solenoid to trigger the spray (as you show in your diagram). If you place that near the jets it does not matter how long the fluid path is as the fluid line will be pressurized all the time. That is the way I had mine set up. The solenoid was only inches from the jet, and the accumulator was between the solenoid and the pump with the line at full pressure all the time the car was running.

Indeed I am going to use on demand function at the pump and the line will be constantly under pressure, when I turn the key on the pump will bring the system on pressure, the distance between the accumulator from trunk to first solenoid will be 4meter (160 inch) and than it will split in two directly after the solenoid after that both lines go to another solenoids just before the nozzles.

Thanks for the heads up Larry.

[Richard L]

Two minor constructive comments:

1) a 700cc accumulator is nice but it also carries a risk for emptying a certain amount of liquid into your manifold should your solenoid valve develops a leak. All valve leaks by nature, all depends on the contruction and plunger spring rate. It can spans from nano litre to litres. I suggest putting a system bleed down, return to tank valve when the engine is switched off.

2) The of demand switch on those pump has a dead band of 20psi or so. Your initial flow will be higher just before the demand switch reactives the pump. Any reason for not using an internal by-pass pump? You will get a migh steadier system pressure.

[BlackWolf]

Originally Posted by Richard L

1) a 700cc accumulator is nice but it also carries a risk for emptying a certain amount of liquid into your manifold should your solenoid valve develops a leak. All valve leaks by nature, all depends on the contruction and plunger spring rate. It can spans from nano litre to litres. I suggest putting a system bleed down, return to tank valve when the engine is switched off.

That?s why I got a third solenoid but it is still risky? If so I need 2-way solenoid just after the accumulator and another solenoid towards the tank otherwise it will empty whole accumulator.

Originally Posted by Richard L

2) The of demand switch on those pump has a dead band of 20psi or so. Your initial flow will be higher just before the demand switch reactives the pump. Any reason for not using an internal by-pass pump? You will get a migh steadier system pressure.

No reason, this pump came with the set, I never thought about that. I was thinking that the accumulator would make sure for a steady pressure.

I found the way to make a digital flow gauge for cheap, I don?t know how long it will last but I am going to try it to see what happens.

This is the in car panel I am going to make, it is not totally at scale since I decided to get another display. The temperature thing is just a bonus, it can read 4 temperatures (PT100), flow meter reads actually RPM but there is a calculation to see how much water goes through: