waterinjection.info  

Go Back   waterinjection.info > Injection Applications (making it work) > Gasoline Forced-Induction

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 16-01-2013, 10:18 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default Re: Smart injection

TIK? sorry, not familiar with this term.

Richard
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16-01-2013, 10:30 AM
Kapt. Q Kapt. Q is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hereford, UK
Posts: 91
Default Re: Smart injection

Sorry, it is a Smart term for their relatively straight, long and tapered intake pipe between the air filter and turbo inlet, designed for some ram/velocity effect I suppose? Smart made a 45kw, 61kw and 74kw versions of this pipe for the three different versions of the engine, each one having a slightly different turbo. The Forge TIK is generally considered to be equal or better than the stock 74kw version as it has fewer bends with smoother radiuses and is straighter, it does suffer a slight step at the inlet that the stock one does not.

Last edited by Kapt. Q; 16-01-2013 at 10:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 16-01-2013, 11:26 AM
Kapt. Q Kapt. Q is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hereford, UK
Posts: 91
Default Re: Smart injection

My engine started as a 45kw (61hp) model, these were prone to premature faliure, believed to be caused by the lack of an oil cooler, use of inferior oils (fully synthetic is a must), oil change intervals that were too long, piston design (possibly), high gears that are way too high in ratio and result in serious lugging by poor drivers and also harsh city use.
Mine has had a thermostatic oil cooler added.

Smart had oil coolers, shorter service intervals, Shorter top gear ratios and possibly different pistons in the higer spec engines (Brabus & Roadster) and these were not so prone to faliure despite making 20-40hp more! 33-66% more hp!!!

Last edited by Kapt. Q; 16-01-2013 at 11:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 16-01-2013, 11:57 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default Re: Smart injection

The power level increase from 45, 61 and 74kw, are they being offered by the factory?
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 17-01-2013, 08:20 AM
Kapt. Q Kapt. Q is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hereford, UK
Posts: 91
Default Re: Smart injection

Hi Richard, yes that is correct, the 74kw version was 'Brabus' only and had sodium filled valves and water cooled charge cooler, improved turbo with different wastegate actuator, bigger injectors, exhaust and TIK and different cam and map.
These engines have been tuned to 120hp, but then they are very stressed at 171hp per liter!!! (The stronger wastegate allows overboosting beyond 1.5bar).

Interestingly the (Suprex) engine was an offshoot of Smarts abandoned Hybrid program and the brains behind it (Swiss Auto) have since developed a successful hybrid powerplant along these lines.

Last edited by Kapt. Q; 17-01-2013 at 08:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 17-01-2013, 09:26 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default Re: Smart injection

Thanks for the run down on options.

Just going back to your project, how far are you going to push yours up to? Please remind me the power level you have achieved up to now.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 17-01-2013, 01:03 PM
Kapt. Q Kapt. Q is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hereford, UK
Posts: 91
Default Re: Smart injection

My car has been uprated to 97hp at 6200, Overboost is 1.49bar. It has a very flat torque curve over it's peak at about 3500rpm.

It will be dyno tuned by a tuner who uses methanol and water himself (he had nothing but good things to say about Aquamist, his first question was what I was doing about a failsafe, so that's a good sign ). So I'll be able to post some figures here, before and after, etc.


Primarily at this point I'm interested in controlling my intake temps, as an example today with an ambient temp of 1C my MAT was about 20C very light cruising and then 40C with less than a minute of medium ragging!

I'd like to see what effect addressing this and also leaning out the mixture under boost will have and if anything can be gained while not stressing it much more than it was without injection, it'll be interesting to see what can be done with the timing.

The goal is a full time on boost system at the moment, but in the future depending on the results of this experiment, I'm thinking of rebuilding it with higher compression and better rods, pistons,etc, in order to best use the anti knock properties in a full time system strong enough to allow further developments.

Cheers!

Last edited by Kapt. Q; 17-01-2013 at 01:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 17-01-2013, 01:23 PM
Kapt. Q Kapt. Q is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hereford, UK
Posts: 91
Default Re: Smart injection

Ps. I think that I may have issues with my spark strength, time will tell and there are off the shelf solutions available should it arise. It is a three coil Six sparkplug setup, with simultaneous spark for both plugs in each cylinder.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 18-01-2013, 12:59 PM
Kapt. Q Kapt. Q is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hereford, UK
Posts: 91
Default Re: Smart injection

I could use some help regarding where I should put my methanol/water tank.

I would ideally like to use a 4+liter container, however this will not be possible outside the cockpit (the windshield washer tank is in the front and the engine in the back).


Would it be best to use a racing type fuel cell with external venting?
I will not be using more than a 50/50 mix.
Will this present plumbing/fitting problems?

Cheers!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 18-01-2013, 03:25 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default Re: Smart injection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapt. Q View Post
My car has been uprated to 97hp at 6200, Overboost is 1.49bar. It has a very flat torque curve over it's peak at about 3500rpm.

It will be dyno tuned by a tuner who uses methanol and water himself (he had nothing but good things to say about Aquamist, his first question was what I was doing about a failsafe, so that's a good sign ). So I'll be able to post some figures here, before and after, etc.


Primarily at this point I'm interested in controlling my intake temps, as an example today with an ambient temp of 1C my MAT was about 20C very light cruising and then 40C with less than a minute of medium ragging!

I'd like to see what effect addressing this and also leaning out the mixture under boost will have and if anything can be gained while not stressing it much more than it was without injection, it'll be interesting to see what can be done with the timing.

The goal is a full time on boost system at the moment, but in the future depending on the results of this experiment, I'm thinking of rebuilding it with higher compression and better rods, pistons,etc, in order to best use the anti knock properties in a full time system strong enough to allow further developments.

Cheers!
Got some time today to work on your system, jury duty was finished for me yesterday.

1. Building a low flow valve and bench test.
2. Changing Flow sensor turbine profile to suit low flow.
3. Reflash controller for a lower flow table.

All went well considering our system normally flow 5-10 times as much. The rest of the system are ready but had to leave early due to snow storm. So it will have it be next week for shipping.


Anyway. Failsafe is standard with the system. Can you tell me what kind of boost controller is used, mechanical or electronic?

My first target is to lower your temperature rise on load. You may need more water/methanol than we first calculated. The recommended ratio is for less harsh operating condition than yours. Rapid temperature rise as described by our phone conversation indicated you have highly stressed engine.

We shall see how WI performs, will be very interesting. If you have spark blown out problem you can increase methanol concentration.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.