Water vs Methanol : Ultimate Tuning

[FI_Rubicon]

Looking at the diagram it seems that this may work with a TV Supercharger. Would this make sense for a SC as well? It is not super high boost, peaking at just 10psi on a stock NA motor.


I am running Aquamist jets now and wonder if I can improve atomization. Will running a greater number of jets to achieve the same flow rate improve the atomization? In other words, if I switch from the current 1.2mm and 0.4mm jets to four jets (say two 0.5mm and two 0.4mm) improve atomization by a significant degree? I have some real-estate to work with on the intake tract and can pout four jets, while spacing them apart and keeping them in front of the throttle body.

[parmas]

Originally Posted by rotrex

This threat shows install pictures:
http://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-inj...-pics-1031140/

Why would you install a pre-turbo injection that goes first into the filter? Is there a hole or something?

A diagram:
http://www.mx6.com/forums/2g-mx6-for...ml#post2606465

Ok let's say I have a five gallon tank with lots of tubing. Does all this boost used by this setup causes boost lag? I think the less fluid in the tank -> the more boost the setup needs to work causing variable boost lag.
The nozzle seems interested though if it's true that produces fine mist with 40 or less psi. What if you use this nozzle with 200psi ?

A video:
http://youtu.be/8Lizxy3XIY8

Nice video. I just left him a comment to understand how much pressure he used.

Depending on pressure and flow, you get median droplet diameters of half the total volume in the range of 30-80 microns with air assisted nozzles while hydraulic nozzles are more in the range of 200-500µm. The media diameters over total number of droplets are in the range of some five to 5-20 µm vs. 100-200 µm. These numbers are not hard numbers as every manufacturer and type of nozzle acts a little different.

there is a reason you go for air assisted if smallest droplets are a main factor for performance, e.g. Paint spray, cooling in manufacturing processes, e.g. Plastic milling, or humidification systems.

Why would they use air assisted nozzles with hydraulic pumps? That would be awesome misting right?

It has its merits, I'd therefore not slag it off just because Snow XXX does not sell it.

Why would you not even consider a small air to air cooler? The benefits for performance would be tremendous.

I had one big fat intercooler. The result? Lots of boost lag / Complicated setup / Mess of piping / drops only a fixed amount of heat. With water injection I gained three times as much better air cooling + better throttle response + easy setup removal -- only one 20cm pipe !

Regards
Marko

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[rotrex]

there is a hole in the air filter indeed. the spray is injected right through this hole.

For the tank you mount a check valve in the pressure supply line. Once the container is pressurised, it stays pressurised. 20l or about 5 gallons of compressed are generated by your turbocharger within some 200 Milliseconds for a 300HP air flow.

After that you only need to replenish the air replacing the fluid.
One example found here
http://www.sprayernozzle.com.tw/down.../CTGAZ18BR.pdf
sprays 500ml/min (30l/h) using 60l of air per minute or 1l per second at 0.7 bar. At 300Hp your car needs 250l of air per second! The loss is insignificant. The same is valid to fill the container.

Hydraulic nozzles are spray nozzles driven by high fluid pressure. It is what most of us are using.

Working with not too big pipes (for 300HP, 50mm is still OK), not too bog of a IC and a blow off valve, lag due to a intercooler should be minimal on full chat. I see the simplicity of your approach and plumbing a IC is a lot of work. I also tried just WM injection, but had worse results compared to both CC and water injection.

[Flr Power]

Originally Posted by FI_Rubicon

I am running Aquamist jets now and wonder if I can improve atomization. Will running a greater number of jets to achieve the same flow rate improve the atomization? In other words, if I switch from the current 1.2mm and 0.4mm jets to four jets (say two 0.5mm and two 0.4mm) improve atomization by a significant degree? I have some real-estate to work with on the intake tract and can pout four jets, while spacing them apart and keeping them in front of the throttle body.

Yes it will but is it really needed? I like 0.8mm size jet and below to keep atomization good. On your application, I would split that 1.2mm jet for sure and keep them in front of the throttle body.

[FI_Rubicon]

Originally Posted by Flr Power

Yes it will but is it really needed? I like 0.8mm size jet and below to keep atomization good. On your application, I would split that 1.2mm jet for sure and keep them in front of the throttle body.

Cool. Thanks. My original plan was indeed to split the 1.2mm jet into two smaller ones that are more equally sized, so it is good to know that I do not need to add more jets.

I have dual jets now but it is just one very large (1.0 or 1.2) one with one very small one (0.4-B). I also have them mounted at 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock in the same silicon coupler. I was thinking to spread them out and maybe put one in the end of the inverted cone air filter that I have. It would point the nozzle right down the intake tract.

[parmas]

Here is an interesting thesis regarding Ethanol and Water injection at different water mixtures providing detailed information.

Thanks to Rotrex for sharing and to Baine Breaux for actually doing it.

Full Thesis here : http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/et...Thesis2012.pdf

I took the time to read it carefully and took notes from it. I am attaching the notes phrased from the thesis itself into a pdf.

I am also attaching graphs should anyone make use of them.

[parmas]

More pictures from THE EFFECT OF ELEVATED WATER CONTENT ON ETHANOL COMBUSTION

[parmas]

More pictures from THE EFFECT OF ELEVATED WATER CONTENT ON ETHANOL COMBUSTION

[parmas]

Here another Thesis directly related to internal combustion N/A engine and water injection.

Thanks to Gurveer Jatana for his research.

https://espace.cdu.edu.au/eserv/cdu:...3_Jatana_G.pdf

Attaching graphs and pictures that attracted me.

[parmas]

Last one.............