Flow vs Pressure

[parmas]

Originally Posted by rotrex

The injection control valve will only work to some max. Pressure. Check the data sheet of the valve you use.Doubling pressure only gains you some 40% more flow. Pipe fittings become challenging at such high pressure.

The check valve used on the Pre-turbo is branded Hamlet 316_Stainless and works in 3000psi systems. Also much expensive though worth it. The inlet/outlet is 6mm I don't know how much I can flow to it until I test it. See attached..


The pump case might not sustain 450PSI vs. the outside and leak or crack.
The serial arrangement is not necessary. Just use them in parallel and get the jets yOu need for the flow you need. you can always just add more.

Well the pump case could be an issue, I have to check with Aquatec about it. Parallel would be best for methanol flow needs while Series would be better for water droplets

My system is based on the old AM 2c system. I have now replaced the race pump with a Flotec pump. Otherwise it stil works the same. 150 PSI rail pressure buffered by a accumulator. The mix is metered by a HSV PWM control valve. I think AM now seems a FAV (fast acting valve). My flow indication is the pump running indicated by a LED: if it blinks or illuminates, the mix is flowing. The faster it blinks, the more I flow.

I have an AEM flow gauge and software datalogging. I can datalog how much injected during a run. Could you give more details on the HSV PWM control valve and Flotec pump you have like links etc..

There is no reason to build something like this, just with 4 pumps and the according number of jets. Likely a single FAV will flow enough.

Did not understand the above...

Fuel injectors are ethanol and fuel compatible these days. MEthnaol compatible injectros are likely identical except someone did the effort to test compatibility.
Common to all fuel injectors is that they cannot tolerate water similar to fuel pumps with ther fuel cooled rotors. They corrode from the water.
You need special metering valves that are designed to be compatible with with water. They are not common. Aquamist is one of the few (actually the only one) selling those.
I have a HSV under ECU control and it is one fine piece of valve. Current modulation frequency is set to 80Hz.


Could you indicate what Aquamist valve are you referring to?

Pure methanol corrodes aluminium if exposed over prolonged periods of time in a container, especially if contaminated by acids or bases breaking down the passivity on layer of aluminium. Water reduces this effect. That is why storing 50:50 mixes causes no issues.

Are you sure your race fuel shop cannot provide race spec e85? It would make your life much easier as you could use mostly common fuel pumps and injectors for a secondary injection system.
Then again, add water as necessary with your current WMI system.

I meant E85 is not available at the pump station, you need to go buy it directly from the Racefuel company like VPracing. As you see I like to go big so methanol is the first priority fuel if it happens the case of any issues along I might reconsider E85 or pure ethanol then

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[parmas]

Originally Posted by Richard L

- You should not have any trace of water in the methanol. Even absorb from the water vapour from the air over time. Leave the fuel injector

This issue will rise only if I use fuel injectors instead of nozzles right or will effect the primary pump fuel injectors?

- High pressure demands high current. Hight current means heat rise. The Aquatec specification is quite vague, " ... some pump can run for hours .... "

Agreed... need to clear this out with Aquatec...

- I cannot see a valve that will work at 450psi at 1600cc/min. Certain not from us.

Jus posted one I already have from Hamlet able to work in the 3000psi region, don't know the flow though

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[Richard L]

I was referring to a PWM valve, not a checkvalve.

[parmas]

Originally Posted by Richard L

I was referring to a PWM valve,

What if I use 4 pumps each connected directly to each nozzle (4) and each pump has its own PWM control valve. This will eliminate problem of pumps overheating/overpressing + PWM control valve flowrate.

Option 1 : All 4 PWM control valves wired together so they activate all together according duty cycle managed by ecu map.

Option 2 : Each PWM control valve connected to primary injectors (example injector 1 with PWM nozzle 1 etc..) Since the injection needs to happen on boost the ecu switches on pumps when the engine is on boost and manage flow according PWM duty cycle managed by ecu map.

What do you think Richard/Rotrex ?

[rotrex]

As the jets mostly flow all the time under boost,I.e. Valve is open, you might get away with a single or two fast acting valves. Timed sequencial injection has little benefits for what you want to do.
Richard should know the max flow rate of the current fast acting valve FAV.

[Richard L]

There are two FAVs with flow rates 1600cc (806-239) and 1300cc (standard 806-239B).

[parmas]

Originally Posted by Richard L

There are two FAVs with flow rates 1600cc (806-239) and 1300cc (standard 806-239B).

99% Methanol needs to be used....

I am trying to find find one that actually can work with 100% water if possible.

Any ideas Richard?

[parmas]

Originally Posted by Richard L

There are two FAVs with flow rates 1600cc (806-239) and 1300cc (standard 806-239B).

Richard just noticed the attached statements :

Aquamist FAV : Warning: never run hydrocarbon contaminated fluid through this valve. The internal EPDM seal is subject to severe swelling if 99% pure methanol is not used. Always use 99% methanol from a factory sealed canister. Transfer pump or jugs should be free of any previous hydrocarbon usage. Washing the container with detergent will not stop methanol drawing out the hydrocarbon from a plastic container laced with gasoline.

Aquamist Pump : Warning: Prolonged use of 100% methanol may cause
premature pump failure and may not be covered under
warranty - this warning applies to all Aquatec pumps.

Is this contradictory? 99% Methanol may damage pump while less may damage FAV....

[rotrex]

He just means 99% purity methanol, but this mixed with distilled water.

Richard, can the older HSV take a ethanol / water mix?
Ethanol is way cheaper than methanol for me here in Germany.

[Richard L]

The HSV has EPDM seals, OK with methanol or ethanol as long as it is 99% pure.