New to forum / Custom WI system for AUDI

[simple]

I was thinking I am the only ?smart? a** around and will invent something new, till I found this: http://www.aquamist.co.uk/dc/coollin...l/jankel2.html

Some one already has the system I am trying to build RUNING! Man, life is so not fear :cry:

Anyway, Richard how much is the set up like this? Do you make it?

By the way, funds where droven of my CC, this would mean I will see my order soon. Thanks Richard.

[Richard L]

I am sorry, but we are not supplying this system anymore. Production ceased on 1996. We supplied the system to RR Malsanne Turbo and Jankle only - it was a special system commissioned by RR for a batch of highly tuned car ordered by someone in Brunei.

Your parts were sent last week by registrered airpost.

Richard

[simple]

Wow, you guys are got to be top dogs in the field if had system like this running in 1996!!! The current systems you sell would look primitive when compared to this high tech staff. Today we have chips that can do and process 100?s times more than back in 1996. Not to mention that the sensors and the rest of the products moved forward a lot.
Richard, why did you stop offering the kits? With today mass production you can produce it relatively cheap.
:roll:

[Richard L]

I long for someone else wouldl take up this and continue to develop it further. We have to out our personal interest aside and make products that suit the pocket size of the majority. If some one can come up and give us a bunch of fund for keeping us going for five years without have to selling anything, I am "more" than happy to take this project on again.

It has been a number year since I looked at powerful processors other than little PICs. I hope you will continue this development and if you need any help on special parts, let me know.

It is not the cost of the system but the complex aftersales service required to back your product up. Plus the cost of R&D require to acquired to product the algorithm for the DSP chip to identify true knock's voice print and deals with changes with aging engine components. Other signals from sensor possibility requires the same intense R&D to get it right.

[simple]

According to my calculation:
For HSV to deliver water properly you need to match its operating frequency to engine RPM. Since my set up is single HSV and its 4 cylinder engine with 4 nozzles (one per each intake) at 6000RPM HSV will operate at 50HZ (6000RPM -> 100RPS -> 50RPS to draw water from all 4 intake tracts -> 50HZ valve speed). This is not ideal (as ideal would be to have 4 x HSV operating at 50HZ each) but feasible compromise between HSV cost and performance.
The system must be matching frequency due to misting nozzles positioned next to intake valves and there is no chance for mist to be homogenized with air evenly. Offsetting HSV operating frequency in relation to intake strokes will cause over-delivery of water per some intake strokes and shortage of water in others.

Richard, am I correct in calculations?

In order to controll HSV using "peak and hold" style drive i need to know operating parameters. I can have only 12.5VDC for activation but what is recomended "hold open" voltage?

[Richard L]

I am afraid there are no easy way to deliver equal amount of water to each cylinder unless you are in sync with your individual fuel injector that happen to be a multi-point and sequantial type. Even the seqential system doesn't direct the fuel into an open valve. It only happens at low RPM - at high RPM and load, there will be fuel waiting at the closed inlet valve.

If you are going for port injection, there is no point using an atomising jet, I have worked with a few R&D labs - they all use a pencil shape jet, directly aimed at the inlet valve.

If your aim is inlet air cooling + incylinder cooling, it is better to use one single jet after the intercooler and four individual non-atomising jet on each port. You can set the flow ratio between the two.

Water will cool by evaporation until it reaches the saturation point. From that point onwards, no more cooling is expected.

Richard

[simple]

Good info Richard. Too much to comment at this stage as it will take me some time to think over it.

I this stage I just want to share surge arrestor results. I had one made from aluminum about 270cc capacity. It is membrane-less type.
Pressure variation at set points:

No surge arrestor
2.5VDC ? 4.2AMP-(30-50PSI)
3.8VDC-7.6AMP-(80-100PSI)
4.8VDC- 8.8AMP- (95-125PSI)
5.8VDC-9.7AMP-(120-150PSI)
7.4VDC-10AMP-(150-180PSI)

With surge arrestor (filed with water 100%):
2.5VDC ? 5.5AMP-(60-70PSI)
3.8VDC-8.1AMP-(105-120PSI)
4.8VDC- 8.8AMP- (128140PSI)
5.8VDC-9.3AMP-(140-160PSI)
7.4VDC-9.6AMP-(150-180PSI)

With surge arrestor (filed with water 50%):
2.5VDC ?AMP-(58PSI)
3.8VDC-AMP-(93PSI)
4.8VDC- AMP- (98-102PSI)
5.8VDC-AMP-(140-145PSI)
7.4VDC-7.6AMP-(160-170PSI)

According to test results, having surge arrestor is beneficial to power consumption and pressure variation reduction. Especially if you have proper (membrane type) or air filed arrestor it will make a huge difference. In my case it removed 90% of pressure pulsation and reduced power consumption by as much as 20%. Not to mention all the hydraulic system benefits such as increased flow and reduced stress of the system.

[Richard L]

YOU DO GREAT WORK.

Could you explain th edifference betwen 50% and 100% filled with water?

I tend to use the smallest arrestor possible to do the job, in case a small leak on the valve, residual pressurised water left in the accumulator may leak in the engine overnight can cause hydo lock.

A sursge arrestor is essential for a good system.

Richard

[simple]

Richard,
Re 50% water filled, I meant ? surge container filled with water only 50% and the rest is trapped air which does not escape during operation and acts as pressure absorber.
100% water filed is when container filled with water only.

According to results you mast have air in container to efficiently absorb pressure spikes, otherwise container capacity has to be greatly increased. Just got to remember that air will dissolve in water. So container will have to be regularly checked. Or alternatively proper surge arrestor mast be used which incorporates membrane which separates water from air inside container.

The water/air system good side:
Very efficient pressure spikes suppression
System pressurized all the time (ready for instant use without delay for pump start up)

Bad side:
A lot of water will be discharged in case of valve failure
Slow pressure build up on system start-up after initial water priming

The problem is that if water/air container used (which is very efficient) it will discharge a lot of water in to the engine if valve fails (your earlier comment!).
If water only container used it will discharge only very small amount of water but it is not efficient for surge suppression.
So ideally you need water/air container with bleed valve which discharges system pressure back in to the main water storage tank when engine is turned off after operation to prevent hydro lock?

[Richard L]

Thank you for for clarifying the accumulator.

I belive you have include a 22cc accumulator on your order already. It should be with you anytime now. Those accumulators are air charged, see diagram:




We have always install an accumulator on Shurflo pump based systems: Here is our standard set up:




Charging up the accumulator is only take a matter of seconds, especially the small 22cc one. The think the advantage far outweighes the disadvanages.


I wonder if you do a some test for me as you already have set up the shurflo and power supply, I have been asked to verify if a small nozzle (such as the one you are using) will response to a full scale voltage/current change, ie 0-12VDC or 0-100% chopped 12VDC (PWM). I wonder if you could do a plot of voltage vs flow and current vs flow on the same nozzle.

Please tell me what cam angle are you using on this shurflo pump?

Richard