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#1
01-07-2013, 08:15 PM
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Help with HFS-3 and MPS Trigger
Hey
I recently purchased a HFS-3 PWM SN 101020. I have wired everything up and am getting into the testing phase. I'm using 1000cc injectors, I had a OMNI 4Bar MAP sensor but I removed this and went back to the stock MAP sensor as I thought this might be causing issues. When running through the various tests, I can make the pump come online, I can get the Pump and FAV to work using the test functions. It sprays a HELL of a lot of water, so that's a good sign! If I drive the car with the setting on threshold to the minimum it comes on very early and then as the rpm increase it sprays ALOT, all good signs! I haven't put a nozzle on the end of the pipe as yet, I have been testing with no nozzle at the moment. Just to see it all works etc. I also tested the Barograph, when testing 3 or 4 bars light up along with the "B" on the end, if I use the other test function FDC the Gauge stops displaying the "S" My problem is coming in that I want to trigger the unit at about 0.3bar pressure and then from my understanding the flow will increase as the IDC increases. When I pull the jumper off the IDC and put it onto MPS, the threshold light remains on regardless of what I try, high or low settings. This light also activates if I leave the jumper off both triggers, the only time it does not light up regardless is if the jumper is on the IDC prongs. When the jumper is on the MPS prongs and the unit is on the pumps activates and stays activated. No water passes through as I can only assume the FAV is not activating and the WInjection indicator comes on and the water level indicator comes on. This happens regardless if the car engine is on or off. I have double checked that the wires we tapped into on the ecu is the wires with voltage, ie the signal wire. when the car is off it shows 5v on the cable. I have not changed any other setting on the unit apart from moving the jumper to MPS trigger... has anyone had this and can anyone help? I'm tearing my hair out to try get this right :/ Thanks in advance!! 
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#2
01-07-2013, 11:29 PM
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Re: Help with HFS-3 and MPS Trigger
OK. Can you measure the voltage of test point pin17 (MAP sensor voltage)
1. pre-crank 2. engine running
__________________
Richard L aquamist technical support
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#3
02-07-2013, 01:55 PM
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Re: Help with HFS-3 and MPS Trigger
Quote:
Great, will do, I will have results for you tonight. Thanks again for helping. I was reading one of the other posts on the bar graph test, from my understanding i should see all bars light up. i only see about 3 or 4, will confirm later. do i need to adjust the SC within the test to see more? Thanks!
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#4
02-07-2013, 03:34 PM
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Re: Help with HFS-3 and MPS Trigger
Quote:
i have been searching the web like a savage and i think i might have found the issue, of course tonight's test i think will confirm this. The wires we went off is showing 5v when i tested it last night, this is pre-crank. so i'm expecting to see 5v on the voltage when doing the test tonight. i think the issue comes in that we used the power supply cable instead of the signal cable. I'm not 100% sure if this ECU pinout is correct but from my understanding the voltage is the key here. i'm assuming if i can find out which wire shows the 1.7 to 2.4 Voltage and when idling the 1.1 to 1.6 voltage then that is the wire i need to trace back and connect to the control unit ECU harness. This might also explain the constant on no matter what...? What is the MPS trigger set to read voltage wise? Thanks Pierre
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#5
02-07-2013, 08:38 PM
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Re: Help with HFS-3 and MPS Trigger
Quote:
Right did some testing tonight and making progress! On initial testing I was seeing 5v pre and post crank, this explains the system triggering no matter what.   On testing the pins on the sensor again and doing some tracing etc I found the signal wire. pulled the ECU, redid the wiring and tested again. Now I see 2.26v (assuming 0.01bar) on pre crank and 1.26 on idle (-0.07bar) I set the unit just past half way which seems to be just above 0.01bar. The pump still activates with no water coming through but i'm assuming this is because MPS is purely a trigger and the FAV is activated by IDC signal. I also tested the Bar graph again. on connecting the jumper i see 4 bars but by turning up the SC dial on the gauge I can see all bars. so assuming this is all ok and working. I tested the FIDC again and still same, the "s" disappears while this is on the then comes back online when you remove the jumper. I put in the 1mm nozzle and headed out for some testing. here is where I get confused... :/ When I reach the trigger point the unit seems to activate, I see water on the windscreen. The "B" comes on for a second or two and then disappears... i'm only running on actuator till I get this right (0.8bar) the W.injection light comes on and then the water level light comes on... I thought maybe the tank is getting empty, I filled it up, being a 7L tank. it won't run out fast... I tried setting the SC values as well as the WL and WH values to all extremes as well as setting the gain to high and low, no difference on the gauge... I never see any bars coming on. Could this be because i'm using 1000cc injectors. they are the stock injectors 580's de-capped, flow was tested at 1078cc... my other thought is the unit is going into some kind of failsafe, but the one reassuring thing is no matter what, the water still flows, so FAV and pump are activated and working... the gain just changed the flow from low to high... I'm slowly getting there... thanks for pointing me in the right direction. EDIT* on speaking to the guy that did the wiring... he says he only checked continuity for the injector wires, not which is positive and which is negative.... IF these were the wrong way round. could this cause the issues I am seeing? I only found this out now, so can test again tomorrow. Thanks! Pierre Last edited by naviuk; 03-07-2013 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Added info
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#6
03-07-2013, 09:16 AM
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Re: Help with HFS-3 and MPS Trigger
The system appears to be working properly. I like to clarify a few things:
1. When you use the FDC jumper to show IDC%, the "S" will be overrided. 2. You large injector means you are running low IDC%. the system will inject less. Question 1: What is your maximum fuel IDC%? Question 2: What are the jet sizes are you using? Question 3: What map sensor will you be using? factory or 4-bar? I need these information before I can help you further.
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Richard L aquamist technical support
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#7
03-07-2013, 10:10 AM
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Re: Help with HFS-3 and MPS Trigger
Quote:
Ok Cool, makes sense. Just wanted to check one thing, so if you use the FDC jumper, instead of seeing flow on the gauge you will see the actual IDC while running the system? if so thats awesome to do test runs with! Answers. 1. At Current boost aiming for 1.1 bar I have seen a max of 51% IDC, at the 0.8bar i was achieving last night this would have been at about 32% max. i can do testing on higher boost, but wont go above 1.1 for now. i have a wastegate issue, new Tial is on the way. My aim is a Daily driver Pump fuel 1.1bar, so max IDC I expect there is around 50% My highboost will be 1.4bar. i would expect to see about 80%+ on that. From my understanding i will need to scale the bars using the SC trimmer? 2. The Jet i had on last night is the black ringed one, if memory serves me it is the 1mm jet (the biggest in the pack) i will do some testing later on using two jets versus one as i have tapped two holes onto the intercooler, there is no real hard and fast rule as to what works with pre or post intercooler or using a combination. but i will only do this once i have the system working properly with one jet. 3. I would like to use the 4Bar aftermarket one, i had originally started with this one, i swapped it back to the original to rule out a sensor being the issue. i can put the 4bar back and amend the scaling in the ECU and retest the voltage. The red and green wires for the injector have us alittle confused. would it be possible to explain these? from my understanding on the injectors. there is a common wire - in the subaru seems to be common negative and a signal wire. the common wire leads back to the ecu and all 4 injectors use this. then each injector goes to it;s own separate wire on the ecu. in my case the Blue wire leads back to it;s own pinout and the red wire leads back to a common point. Thanks again!! Last edited by naviuk; 03-07-2013 at 10:21 AM.
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#8
03-07-2013, 11:01 AM
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Re: Help with HFS-3 and MPS Trigger
Yes, the FDC hi-jack the guage to display FIDC for diagnostic purpose. Normally, it displays water flow.
You only scale the SC after you have done all the tests and jets. 1. I suggest you cut x1 and solder link the x1.5 to amplify the IDC signal a tad. "underside of the board" since you are not using 100% fuel injection. 2. If you are only using 1x 1mm jet againist a 4000cc/min fuel capacity, you are well under jetted. You be running two jets. 100% water ........ 10-15% to fuel M50:W50 ........... 15-20% to fuel 100% methanol ........ 20-25% to fuel (these are the simple rules that work well) 3. If you can not using boost as a trigger, you don't need to tap into the MSP sensor at all. I have always stress that IDC trigger is a more accurate indication of enigne load then boost. Boost is different at different engine load or gear. 4. I think you should wire the red to a known switched 12V source, active only at the pre-crank position. It will be less confusing and reliable. Injector (+) can sometimes be spiky and noisy. Some cars still have resistor packs (no good for the HFS3). You are nearly there. What car do you have?
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Richard L aquamist technical support
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#9
03-07-2013, 11:40 AM
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Re: Help with HFS-3 and MPS Trigger
Quote:
Thanks for the response. I have a 2006 Subaru Impreza STi - ADM/EDM version. Ok just some clarity- 1. With soldering this link, with this affect the actual IDC in the future, just making sure i understand this. if the current signal is 1:1, so 20% is 20%, when i get to using anything more then 50%, will i not hit the 95% duty cycle limit? Would you be able to send me a picture of what you mean on the underside? i will get someone to do it for me. i'm not over excited about touching the board with a soldering iron  2. Great thanks, will keep this for future use. at the moment i only plan to run water. To test the the actual flow i receive from the jets, can i use the "sys" jumper to force the system online and then capture the amount of water it uses? 3. I'll play with both and see what works best for me. i've wired in both so the options are there and then see how it goes, IDC might be the better option. 4. I'm a little lost on this one. So Injector + must go to a switched 12v but only on pre-crank. So wiring it to accessory or a source that allows say gauges or boost controller to come online only when key is turned is wrong? I know there is a common wire for the injectors and then there is the signal, and i'm almost 100% sure then we have this right. i can move it to another power source if thats a better bet. I also take it that i can see the pulse on idle and driving that we must have this right. would you be bale to give me the diagnostic pins to double check this before going wire hunting? ah yes, i remember in a few posts back i mentioned that when on boost and the unit is spraying the water level light comes on, even though the water level is not low... it seems to stay on with the w.injection light. what should this mean? ah yes, i remember in a few posts back i mentioned that when on boost and the unit is spraying the water level light comes on, even though the water level is not low... it seems to stay on with the w.injection light. what should this mean? Thanks!!
Last edited by naviuk; 03-07-2013 at 11:42 AM.
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#10
03-07-2013, 06:02 PM
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Re: Help with HFS-3 and MPS Trigger
1. If you are not going to reach 95% ever, then it is better to pre-amplifier the idc. Alternatively, you can leave it at 1:1 and use the gain trimmer to rescale the idc after the trigger point.
2. It is always better to measure the rate manually with the intended jest/jets for one minute. (use the SYS jumper) 3. --- 4. The red wire just tell the turns the entire system on. It is better to use a switched 12V rather the injector (+) as it can some time be very noisy and spiky. We have some Subaru drawings on this forum, mainly USDM but can be similar. Check this out. It is important this 12V should only be active at the "pre-crank" and "run" key position. The injector (+) is often not found at the ECU. But we have picked a suitable pin at the ECU on the wiring drawings here. Do you have a v11 or v12 gauge? (marking at the back of the gauge).
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Richard L aquamist technical support
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