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Old 13-11-2003, 11:56 AM
Hemi T04 Hemi T04 is offline
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Location: melbourne
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Default methanol vs Ethanol

Hi i just found this site and its exactly the forum i needed.
Ive been messing with different water injection system for the last couple of years on my turbo projects. Now recently ive been experimenting with staight ethanol(methylated spirits) or 50 % mix with water.
I used methanol initially but becuse of all the messing about and leaks(it is very toxic) i decide to use ethanol instead. Which has very similar octane and cooling abilities i am told.
So i want to ask on peoples experinces with ethanol/water injection.
It has over the years chewed into all the rubber componets and rubber fuel lines etc. but i plan on using a fuel lubrican additive from now on.
In my latest system im trying to setup a direct port water/methylated spirits system that will hande the corrosivness of the alchohol and the water. The problem isnt getting it to work- but to get it reliable for long term street use.
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Old 13-11-2003, 05:54 PM
Forum Admin Forum Admin is offline
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Default

Different components react differently to ethanol, methanol (and other alcohols). They are all bad stuff to different substances.

Always check for compatibility between your components and your injection mixture. For instance Aquamist will work well with 50% and less methanol but would not respond well to any notable amount of ethanol.

I have limited experience with ethanol since all my prior systems had no adverse effects from the methanol dilutions I have used.

I am going to move this to the mixture section and hopefully someone with more ethanol experience will provide addtional feedback.
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Old 15-11-2003, 08:15 AM
AKWRX AKWRX is offline
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Default Re: methanol vs Ethanol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemi T04
It has over the years chewed into all the rubber componets and rubber fuel lines etc. but i plan on using a fuel lubricant additive from now on.
The use of a lubricant is highly recommended, especially for long service life of pump seals when any alcohol is used in the mix. Using Marvel Mystery Oil, ATF, or other petroleum based lubricants doesn't work very well. The lube should mix with water, and/or alcohol so it doesn't stratify (separate out), and the lube must burn ash free, similar to 2-cycle oil, or top cylinder oil additive.

The best stuff out there for adding to alcohol/water mixes is the synthetic top cylinder lube made by Klotz Special Formula Products, Inc., sold as Uplon Fuel Lube KL-107. That's what is used in most of the top fuel, and alcohol funny car dragsters. Don't leave home without it...
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Old 15-11-2003, 11:23 AM
Hemi T04 Hemi T04 is offline
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Default alcohol fuel system lubricant

thanks fot the reply akw wrx
Now ill see if i can get my hands on that stuff here in australia
I wonder if it will help with the corrosion caused by the water as well- i know it will stop all the rubbers hardening- or will i still need to make the fuel system out of stainless or something else. I ve been looking at possibly using teflon fuel lines- with standrad compression lock fittings with the olives. But just getting some more info on them at the moment.
Ive also been told that nitrous solenoids do a good job in alcohol as well as nitrous- so they could be a good ay to turn the alchohol jets on and off.

off to do some more searching..
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Old 07-02-2004, 05:42 AM
hotrod hotrod is offline
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Default alcohols and fuel system components

The different alcohols have different "bad actors" to avoid. Here in the U.S. and I assume most other industrialize countries, all common fuel hoses and components are ethanol friendly up to pretty high concentrations. Here in the U.S. all the fuel sold during the winter in many major cities contain an oxygenate to reduce emissions. In recent years the oxygenate of choice has changed. In the middle agricltural part of the country, they have always prefered ethanol due to its spin off to the local economy, providing both live stock feed from the brew mash and a cash source for excess corn production.

In other parts of the country they used MTBE, or other ethers. They have recently become less desirable for ground water pollution reasons.

Here in Colorado we went to an ethanol gasoline mix during the winter many years ago to reduce carbon monoxide emissions. When that change over took place some cars really did not like the ethanol mix. (my 68 VW being one -- my fuel line started leaking like a sieve). I recent years all those fuel lines have been changed to ethanol compatible compounds.

You should be fine if you use modern fuel grade fuel line, and stainless steel lines. Stay away from copper lines or zinc galvanized or magnesium fuel components and you should do okay.

I'll look around and see if I can find a listing I saw a while back that mentioned what materials had problems with which alcohol.

If you do a google search for ethanol and some of the metals like copper and zinc you may be able to find it as well. I recall that Australia has some research papers on ethanol fuel and MTBE that might also have some info on it.

Larry
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