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  #21  
Old 21-06-2011, 01:00 AM
shams1924 shams1924 is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
Water/methanol injection does not make power by itself. I am listing out three typical forced induction applications (sensible AFR):

1. Untuned:- Do not inject over 10-15% water/fuel ratio.
- It will help recovering power loss due to huigh ambient of poor fuel octane.

2. Mildly tuned with a few psi of boost increase:
- Inject 15%+ water/fuel ratio

3. Highly tuined with tens of psi boost increase:
- Inject 20%+ water/fuel ratio

When adding methanol to the mix, injection quantity has to be increased by greater 20-50% extra.

Over injection will result in power loss especially with boost increase or tuned. Once tuned, failsafe implementation is essential.


Shams1924...
I like to confirm howerton's comment, either run a small jet or go for 100% methanol ro avoid blowning out the sparks.

Assuming the mini uses 400cc/min fuel injectors. 15-20% of fuel is 240-320cc/min. At present, you are injecting over 450cc/min with a 0.8mm jet. The size is too big for an untuned engine. The reason for your power loss.
thanks richard and howerton
ok. as 0.8mm was the smallest size. i took the next steps with that still installed.
i lowered the flow as follows.
i inserted the 0.5mm restrictor into the FAV. road tested. no flow. i turned up the SC on the guage. still no flow.
i done repeated the above steps again with the 0.7mm restrictor. again. no flow.
then i tried the 0.9mm restrictor. yet again. no flow recorded.
richard was spot on. together with the newer FAV and the new map on the hfs3 ecu. the flow was already reduced to match the mini.

so as suggested by the most people. i drained the tank and ran 100% meth.
results. car seems to like it much better than the 50/50 mix. still abit of after urn in the exhaust. but i dont feel any power loss. maybe a bit of power gain. initial testing looks to have gone some way to sort out this problem.
will test again tommorow. but i think i may need a smaller nozzle.
shall i send you my original FAV and the unused 0.9mm and 1.0mm nozzles back richard. so i can get a few smaller nozzles?
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  #22  
Old 21-06-2011, 07:38 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

It is strange that you get no flow at all on all the restrictors. I will send you a smaller jet to try. Please send the FAV assembly and bigger nozzle back to me and I change them.

Richard
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  #23  
Old 22-06-2011, 02:16 PM
shams1924 shams1924 is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

ok done that richard

update. the car seems to be liking 100% meth. i think its burning better.
not sure sure if its increased power.
also. when ive got the meth off. it seems the car is running better now. like restored power has come back abit. maybe this could be down to the cleaning the water/meth may do to the internals. (if someone can elaborate on that from experience.)

its not 100% there yet. but its on the right tracks now.
i may try 75 meth 25 water later on. and tweeking of the flow gains and THRES.
but in the mean time. richard has sent me 2 smaller jets. 0.6mm and 0.7mm.
ill try them soon and see how it goes.
after this weekend. expect no updates for 6 weeks as im away on a long vacation.
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  #24  
Old 22-08-2011, 10:36 AM
softic softic is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

shams1924, how is your project now? any updates?
I am going to do similar installation on the same engine (EP6DTS) just couple weeks later.
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  #25  
Old 11-10-2011, 02:20 PM
softic softic is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
I like to confirm howerton's comment, either run a small jet or go for 100% methanol ro avoid blowning out the sparks.

Assuming the mini uses 400cc/min fuel injectors. 15-20% of fuel is 240-320cc/min. At present, you are injecting over 450cc/min with a 0.8mm jet. The size is too big for an untuned engine. The reason for your power loss.
Richard,

Do I get it right that for 400cc/min injectors and 1.4 Bar boost I will need 0.5mm nozzle? (I have the same engine in my car)
Or placing 0.5mm restrictor is okay?

Thanks!
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  #26  
Old 16-10-2011, 06:47 PM
softic softic is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

Well, I have tried installation of all three restrictors and there was NO flow with ANY of them (((
And this was regardless of FAV - even with FAV detached there was 0.001% of water coming out of restrictor.

Richard, is it anyhow possible to determine why this happens? I remember than shams1924 also have had such issue and could not resolve it at all...
If still restrictors do not help - is there any was to change my big injectors (1.0 and 0.9 mm) to the smaller size (0.5 or 0.6 mm)?
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  #27  
Old 20-10-2011, 11:20 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

Are you saying you have no gauge bar display or no water flow pass the jet?


sofric, good point and well picked out...

Shams problem was due to the controller's flow table mos-matching the actual flow (too low for the display even with the SC at fully clockwised). Since then, he has sent the controller to us and got it eflashed.

The HFS (High Flow System) is designed with two nozzles operation in mind. For low flow application as in low-boost/small engines, the flow table of the controller needs to be reflashed. Jeff at Howerton Engineering in the US and us in UK, who will gladly do as a free service if you pay the return postage. unfortunately we don't have another dealer outside this
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  #28  
Old 21-10-2011, 04:55 AM
softic softic is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

Richard, there is no flow at all - even with FAV detached and using SYS jumper to start pump on full load.
I have just started fine-tuning of my car's ECU, so don't want to send the package back - just really very curious on why restrictors do not work at all?

If needed I can make some video of failure with restrictors...
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  #29  
Old 23-10-2011, 10:06 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

The restrictor is just a simple tube with a fixe-sized hole drilled.

Can you see through the hole, if you can't it is blocked. Send me a picture of the install of your restrictor. I have seen one time in the past people put it in the wrong side of the inlet fitting. Here is a diagram how it should be placed:




Question: can you tell me the numbers on the small label on the left side of the circuit board. This will tell me the flow table flashed into your controller.
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  #30  
Old 18-02-2012, 01:43 PM
shams1924 shams1924 is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

Quote:
Originally Posted by softic View Post
shams1924, how is your project now? any updates?
I am going to do similar installation on the same engine (EP6DTS) just couple weeks later.
very sorry. just seen the thread now afetr a while. install is finished.
i didnt use the full functions of the hfs3 and tune my car to run on meth 24/7
after long considerations, i lef it as it is, as and added protection, and i little speed booster when needed(seems to add 5bhp, i know thats only a bit)
on the jcw, it adds extra pops and bangs on the throttle lift off :-)


Quote:
Originally Posted by softic View Post
Well, I have tried installation of all three restrictors and there was NO flow with ANY of them (((
And this was regardless of FAV - even with FAV detached there was 0.001% of water coming out of restrictor.

Richard, is it anyhow possible to determine why this happens? I remember than shams1924 also have had such issue and could not resolve it at all...
If still restrictors do not help - is there any was to change my big injectors (1.0 and 0.9 mm) to the smaller size (0.5 or 0.6 mm)?
i seems that your issue may be related to the system not activating, has it been setup properly. you should be fine with 0.6/0.7mm nozzles.

oh yeah, i dont think the engine will like lower than 25 distilled water and 75 meth mixture.
most guys in ussa run 00% met.
20 water and 80 meth should be good.
if you add more than 30% water, the car doesnt like it. seems to let of aa loud pop(exhaust)every so often and hesitates abit.
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