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  #31  
Old 07-06-2018, 12:08 PM
RICE RACING RICE RACING is offline
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Default Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2

M&W CDI is the only way with this if you are serious, we are SERIOUS!
100kph to 200kph in 4.951 seconds in fat kunt R34 4WD datsun with OEM syncro gearbox, its fast, reliable and durable. Even with the best semi slick tires we need GPS based traction control to stop uncontrollable wheel spin, WM50 going through all of the below jets!
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum2/vbu...4392#post24392
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  #32  
Old 08-06-2018, 07:03 AM
rotrex rotrex is offline
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Default Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2

Proper jet location for a direct port system. In line, same side and close to fuel injector location. Like it.
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  #33  
Old 08-06-2018, 11:04 AM
RICE RACING RICE RACING is offline
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Default Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotrex View Post
Proper jet location for a direct port system. In line, same side and close to fuel injector location. Like it.
Did an EVO10 Bitsashitty today with one of these but no port injection and its not as nice. Also thanks to LR/Syvecs ECU and RR developed knock control strategy it covered the lack luster install which saw the WI line come off!!!

I post that up for the benefit of others, if you are relying on your water injection system and you do not have one of these computers that can counter any eventuality then you are asking for a world of pain.

WI is great but its just like any other sub system in the car, don't come crying or saying XYZ is shit cause your engine detonated. For all the clowns out there who say your are just making it more complex then come talk to me when your ECU and 'Tuna' can counter a fuel injector failure causing instant fuel leak and lean out on one cylinder, saw that last week and again thanks to what we do the ECU (with proper programming) first ramped up the fueling due to loss if fuel pressure, then CLL kicked in as well, and finally after the knock control in the offending cylinder caught within one engine cycle the knock prior to pre igntion starting and shut down that cylinder, all at 8000rpm and we are talking less than one hundred of a second, full power, engine killing event on any other system. 100k engine set up saved, fixed issue, drove home, ran comp test, all pots perfect and back over 1100bhp the next day. WI in this day and age with proper electronics is so easy and safe... its the ultimate in engine performance.

Spend the money once and do it right and it will serve you well, the initial cost is long forgotten but the price for being a cheap ass internet trolling information whore is a painful gift that keeps on giving long after the feeling of saving a few grand getting LINK'd to the wrong ECU and shit advice
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  #34  
Old 08-06-2018, 08:22 PM
rotrex rotrex is offline
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Default Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2

When I had a priming pump issue with my old pump set-up,
The J&S safeguard knock controller performed a similar rescue. It is a way cruder means of intervention than your sophisticated ECU, but still it was money well spend.
Engine spit flames and bogged, but nothing more happened thanks to an instant 10 deg pull of timing on the offending cylinders.

Any high strung FI motor should have proper knock control and ideally even more layers of safety as you have described.

Overall I can only second what you wrote. Life, Motec etc offer amazing capabilities these days.

I am not a 100% keyboard warrior as most of the stuff I write comes from my own literature research and experiments on my own FI engines over the last 10+ years.
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  #35  
Old 08-06-2018, 10:17 PM
RICE RACING RICE RACING is offline
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Default Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotrex View Post
When I had a priming pump issue with my old pump set-up,
The J&S safeguard knock controller performed a similar rescue. It is a way cruder means of intervention than your sophisticated ECU, but still it was money well spend.
Engine spit flames and bogged, but nothing more happened thanks to an instant 10 deg pull of timing on the offending cylinders.

Any high strung FI motor should have proper knock control and ideally even more layers of safety as you have described.

Overall I can only second what you wrote. Life, Motec etc offer amazing capabilities these days.

I am not a 100% keyboard warrior as most of the stuff I write comes from my own literature research and experiments on my own FI engines over the last 10+ years.
^ That is what this and all places need, is experienced people with good advice, and not pretenders.

Knock control is a must I agree.
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  #36  
Old 11-06-2018, 05:34 AM
robos4 robos4 is offline
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Default Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by RICE RACING View Post
M&W CDI is the only way with this if you are serious, we are SERIOUS!
100kph to 200kph in 4.951 seconds in fat kunt R34 4WD datsun with OEM syncro gearbox, its fast, reliable and durable. Even with the best semi slick tires we need GPS based traction control to stop uncontrollable wheel spin, WM50 going through all of the below jets!
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum2/vbu...4392#post24392
RR,

Exactly the same setup as mine and location too (Evo X for me).

Question, how do you manage the lines evaporating due to the heat when in traffic? do you have a built in purge?

Cheers
Rob
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  #37  
Old 11-06-2018, 07:04 AM
rotrex rotrex is offline
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Default Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2

I used extended tip in fueling (accleration fueling) to bridge the fill delay.

With a sophisticated programmable ECU, you could a squirt a litte every minute or so during normal operation with minimal fluid use.
If you use jets with integrated check valves, this is much less of an issue.
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  #38  
Old 11-06-2018, 07:40 AM
RICE RACING RICE RACING is offline
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Default Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2

In this application the nozzles have the check valves.
I can put up a graph to show when the WM50 kicks in and the effect on Lambda, as per Richards advice we use his control box, but have the WI status into the ECU, the flow meter output and the strategies are working around that, his box drives the delivery valves.

We run allot of fluid, and even I was surprised at how good it is, the Syvecs S8 has a customer fuel modifier based on the flow meter input, and it manipulates the fuelFinal injection amount accordingly. This car is spastic fast in the first 4 gears and even with all 4 wheels spinning obviously the traction control is taking over and thus you cant use or rely on closed loop fueling so the interactions between both systems is very linear.

Its a car that runs in a hot ambient environment, its not uncommon for us to see AIT (measure inlet to turbo) of over 55 deg C after sitting in traffic and its fueling is always spot on.

Regardless you have to get the fuelMltCll1 to within a tight tolerance and this is especially hard on a port throttle engine like this set up (kept for ultimate response) and I use a complex strategy that takes into account varying and constantly moving map/tip ratio with my own derived air flow correction to suit this specific engine (its never a text book relationship) rather it varies based on the cam specs mostly, regardless its not easy or quick to set up but once done right it works fantastic. This is why I don't rate ANY of the Ve models with a baked in BS set up done by a computer programmer as they don't really understand any of this as they don't make engines themselves nor work on a large variety of them. I find it much better to develop all this yourself and work in true motorsport ECU way in ms defined maps (Life Racing, Syvecs, Cosworth, Bosch, Marrelli etc) and forget all of the crap fudge factors and excuses that get mentioned on the internet LOL.

Off topic but thought I would explain some of the items that can confuse some when running WM50 and then trying to explain why they have a difference in fueling in differing conditions, most cases especially when turbo charged let alone port throttle application there is allot that changes the demands of the engine.
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Water Injection Specialist
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  #39  
Old 11-06-2018, 07:57 AM
RICE RACING RICE RACING is offline
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Default Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2

'dildos in ass' is the water flow rate input, and the ECU multiplier used, the fuelMultCll1 is a reflect of how accurate the calibration is with the effect of the WM50 going through the engine. So with or without you can see the reaction is very fast and accurate.

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RICESP > F40 > Zonda > ZR1
Water Injection Specialist
"Can't be defeated!, don't know the word!, shoulder to shoulder!, we'll fight the world!, WE CAN'T BE BEATEN!!!"
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  #40  
Old 11-06-2018, 08:00 AM
robos4 robos4 is offline
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Default Re: WMI tuning and results Part 2

Thanks,

I also have checkvalves and the lines dry up fast, I put it down to evaporatin in the line when in traffic/hot engine and parked - not from the vacuum sucking it through (I live in Singapore where we also see >55deg AIT too). I have to give it some load to start spraying and purge the lines with Water/meth before I can go WOT often.

thanks for your responses.

Rob
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