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Old 15-10-2003, 10:42 AM
Richard L
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Default Has anyone used water injection to replace intercooler?

Like to know if anyone has actually done this and if so, what is the effect of 'before' and 'after'?
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Old 15-10-2003, 12:03 PM
DMan DMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L
Like to know if anyone has actually done this and if so, what is the effect of 'before' and 'after'?
Hi Richard,

Denis Kefallinos here from Boston, MA. How are you doing?

There are a few Grand National users of the 84-85 non-intercooled vintage (other wise known as 'hot air' cars) that are using water/alcohol injection. I seem to recall they had good results but you'd have to research it. Head over to turbobuick.com and do a search in the alky forum for 'Hot Air'.
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Old 15-10-2003, 04:46 PM
Richard L
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Hello Denis,

Great to hear from you again. I didn't realise that the early Buick GN doesn't use intercooler.

It has been sometimes since we last spoke, remind me if you have an intercooler on board and also if you have managed to progressibely increase water flow with increase load on your set-up

Richard L
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Old 16-10-2003, 09:03 PM
pbonsalb
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I recall reading years and years ago that the Chrysler engineers who designed the Dodge/Plymouth 2.2 Turbos used water injection before they used intercoolers when they started looking for more power. They preferred water injection due to the tighter turbo plumbing, but ultimately decided against it because they did not believe the average driver would remember to fill the bottle.

That was back in the early days of mass production automotive turbocharging (save a few much earlier examples). Knowledge and improvements today might lead to a different conclusion; i.e., air to water intercooling would reduce packaging while providing a more direct path.

However the heat is taken out, the result is pretty much the same -- more power. You just want it done in a reasonably simple, inexpensive, and reliable way.

Philip Bradley
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Old 18-10-2003, 11:11 AM
MapMaker50 MapMaker50 is offline
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I have noticed that more and more manfacturers are adopting the use of intercooler sprays, it is only a small step away from implementing internal water injection.

I would like to know if anyone has some experience of the effectiveness of such device (external) and noticed any surge of power when the spray is switched on abruptly during acceleration.
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Old 19-10-2003, 12:58 AM
AKWRX AKWRX is offline
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Just finished up an alcohol/water injection system on a 1.6L Honda with a Jackson Racing super charger system. The injection system is in lieu of an intercooler. There should be a 90 to 100 degree F cooling effect, the same as an efficient intercooler would be capable of producing. Many supercharged Fords, Dodges, and Chevys use a water/alcohol injection system instead of an intercooler with great sucess.
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Old 19-10-2003, 09:06 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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I would be very interested on your non-interrcooler set on your honda, please psot some figures when you have some.

Just a few weeks ago when I was doing some new product testing work in a WRX on a dyno. We used to jets, a 0.4mm before the IC and a 1.0mm after. Water rate is totally variable at will. It was a 23C degree day and the session lasted about 6-7 hours.

A big fan was used in front of the car (not that effective) for TMIC cooling. Throughout the day, we always put our hands on the intercooler to feel the core temperature was ensure that it is not too excessive before the next pull. Surprisingly the core was always "cold" to touch - not warm. It only warms up slightly during the power run. We didn't record the temperaure as it really wasn't the aim of our test on that day.

After few hours or so we got curious and pull the 0.4mm jet out, plugged up the jet hole and measured the actual water flow into a measuring jug for a two-minute power pull and got the 140cc of water - 70cc/min!!!

When turned around, we saw large amount of vapour coming up of the intercooler core and the core was red hot - guessed we forgot to put the bonnet down during that pull. In moment of panic, we manually activated the WI and doused the intercooler with a water jet - vapours, steam was pouring out continuously. Only after 10 minutes for so later, the core was just cool enough to touch.

This little event had me thinking just how effective is a front intercooler sprayer will be with the aid of air flow whilst moving. I would love to hear from anyone who have used it especially measured it.

As a supplier for water injection, we have often been asked by for customers when are we bring out an external intercooler spraying system? I am not sure if this will ever happen. anyone out there can help?
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Old 20-10-2003, 02:49 PM
pbonsalb pbonsalb is offline
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Default IC Water Spray

I like the Autospeed Intelligent Intercooler Water Sprayer. It uses two temp probes and a mini computer to allow you to adjust based on differential. I bought one, but have not fully installed it so I cannot provide any complete experience. There are a series of five or six articles on this kit at the Autospeed website that are worth reading. There are also a couple of unrelated articles on water spray in general that conclude it does not help during a dyno run or drag run, but that it will help get the IC back to normal temp in prep for its next run. On the dyno or dragstrip, the IC needs some heatsoak ability (which older Spearco IC have, but newer lightweight tube and fin design IC lack) and airflow. C02 or nitrous will help on the dragstrip or dyno.

Philip Bradley
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Old 23-10-2003, 01:01 AM
AKWRX AKWRX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L
I would be very interested on your non-interrcooler set on your honda, please post some figures when you have some.
The Honda is on the road, but the tuning process with the Hondata engine management is not under way yet. The Hondata system has a dedicated temperature probe in the intake manifold, so post supercharger intake temp output will be one of the routine data logging entries. The temp probe is about two inches upstream between the dual alcohol injection nozzles. There should be enough mixing within the relatively small intake manifold to get valid temp readings though. A complete write-up of the install with pictures will be posted on a local host web site before too long (hopefully, within 30 days, or so) . Eventually, more complete tuning data will be added, including info from the temp probe in the intake manifold along with other related stuff from the data logs. This is the first alcohol injection install on a street driven Jackson Racing supercharged Honda.
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Old 25-10-2003, 02:55 PM
wrx+ wrx+ is offline
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Default Intercooler water spray

MapMaker50.......... I use a home made intercooler water spray when I take the car to the drag strip and on hot days, it really does make a difference about .80 sec. in the 1/4, and on hot days at a stop light its instant power instead of lull while the hot air cycles. You can try it for your self very cheaply for about $50 US or about 35 pounds. You need a 12 volt RV water pump like is used for a shower(or even cheaper is a universal windsheild washer pump-BUT you can only use that for about 3 seconds), some hose (rubber fuel line works great), a manual on/off switch, at least two nozzles ( I used misting nozzles from a garden supply shop), and a container. (my first container was a little plastic bottle to test the system). Thats all it takes, I use it on a stage 3 wrx with a top mount intercooler(APS).
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