waterinjection.info  

Go Back   waterinjection.info > Water/Methanol database on specific model of cars > Your one-stop search for water/methanol injected cars

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 02-05-2005, 09:13 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojack
Thanks much for the work Richard.

I'm in NJ, any suppliers in the states have the DDS3 yet, big Mopar meet 14th of May, would like to have this and get it installed - tuned before then? Also would like to get the new injectors and adapters, more hose/line, fittings etc...

Again thanks for this, I'm dying to try it.
We have only a few allocated for our dealers since they are the first to try it out. Please email me on richard@aquamist.co.uk and I will try to get you one ASAP if you don't mind paying the transatlantic shipping cost. I think it is about 65 dollars by FedEx.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 14-05-2005, 03:30 AM
ctischmick ctischmick is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5
Default

ok.. so I too am trying this HOM mode without high octane fuel...
My mods are about the same as Turbojack's with the exception that I have a voltage based MAP clamp.. (tricks the ECU into thinking less boost)

When reading the paper posted on this website, this line caught my attention:

When adding 5%-7% water to fuel without leaning rich fueling levels - a degree or two of advance will produce almost the same power result as without water injection (leaning slightly will increase the power output). This is good for people who have engines tuned for high octane or race fuel but on a daily basis want to use lower octane grades. This is purely an economic use of water injection - power use requires fuel and timing tuning.

So would it be correct to say that running 5-7% would actually be better for our purposes... instead of running 10-15%?
Assuming we got ourselves to a 11-12 AFR... then turned on W/I at 5-7% and not retuning at all?

Thanks for your input.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 14-05-2005, 09:35 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctischmick
ok.. so I too am trying this HOM mode without high octane fuel...
My mods are about the same as Turbojack's with the exception that I have a voltage based MAP clamp.. (tricks the ECU into thinking less boost)

When reading the paper posted on this website, this line caught my attention:

When adding 5%-7% water to fuel without leaning rich fueling levels - a degree or two of advance will produce almost the same power result as without water injection (leaning slightly will increase the power output). This is good for people who have engines tuned for high octane or race fuel but on a daily basis want to use lower octane grades. This is purely an economic use of water injection - power use requires fuel and timing tuning.

So would it be correct to say that running 5-7% would actually be better for our purposes... instead of running 10-15%?
Assuming we got ourselves to a 11-12 AFR... then turned on W/I at 5-7% and not retuning at all?

Thanks for your input.
I would like to point out that the 5-7% w/f ratio will only replace the cooling effect of dumping fuel between 12.5 to 10.5. It is not meant to replace the effect of race fuel overall.

If you see any post that put the give people the impression that 5-7% w/f of water will replace the vast octane gap between 89 to 116 numbers, please correct it for us - it is not true.

Water can be added to the bridge the gap between pump fuel and race fuel but the exact amount is not fixed, given that you can injection between 5% to 25% of water to fuel, you need to take one step at a time. Each and every engine set up is different but you can be sure that water will be able to yield positive results if you have the patience to follow it through.

Using race race is not the "end all" solution for power. Race fuel has higher resistance to knock but other aspect is not often discussed.

Having achieved MBT timing and High boost - essential for power, but in-cylinder temperature is often ignored. Higher power means more heat is available to heat up the pistons. Unless you run a wide piston/bore gap (reserved for race engine), when piston/bore clearance is reduced, friction will increase drastically lead to high temperature region around the edge of the piston where it suffers the most high temperature and pressure stress - end flame region. Even if you run race fuel, water is still an asset.

So when you dial in the HOM, baby step down your water flow until you have achieved the perfect match with the HOM map fixed by the Dodge engineers. It would help if we know what that strategy is - I doubt if they will publish it.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 17-05-2005, 02:47 AM
ctischmick ctischmick is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctischmick
ok.. so I too am trying this HOM mode without high octane fuel...
My mods are about the same as Turbojack's with the exception that I have a voltage based MAP clamp.. (tricks the ECU into thinking less boost)

When reading the paper posted on this website, this line caught my attention:

When adding 5%-7% water to fuel without leaning rich fueling levels - a degree or two of advance will produce almost the same power result as without water injection (leaning slightly will increase the power output). This is good for people who have engines tuned for high octane or race fuel but on a daily basis want to use lower octane grades. This is purely an economic use of water injection - power use requires fuel and timing tuning.

So would it be correct to say that running 5-7% would actually be better for our purposes... instead of running 10-15%?
Assuming we got ourselves to a 11-12 AFR... then turned on W/I at 5-7% and not retuning at all?

Thanks for your input.
I would like to point out that the 5-7% w/f ratio will only replace the cooling effect of dumping fuel between 12.5 to 10.5. It is not meant to replace the effect of race fuel overall.

If you see any post that put the give people the impression that 5-7% w/f of water will replace the vast octane gap between 89 to 116 numbers, please correct it for us - it is not true.

Water can be added to the bridge the gap between pump fuel and race fuel but the exact amount is not fixed, given that you can injection between 5% to 25% of water to fuel, you need to take one step at a time. Each and every engine set up is different but you can be sure that water will be able to yield positive results if you have the patience to follow it through.

Using race race is not the "end all" solution for power. Race fuel has higher resistance to knock but other aspect is not often discussed.

Having achieved MBT timing and High boost - essential for power, but in-cylinder temperature is often ignored. Higher power means more heat is available to heat up the pistons. Unless you run a wide piston/bore gap (reserved for race engine), when piston/bore clearance is reduced, friction will increase drastically lead to high temperature region around the edge of the piston where it suffers the most high temperature and pressure stress - end flame region. Even if you run race fuel, water is still an asset.

So when you dial in the HOM, baby step down your water flow until you have achieved the perfect match with the HOM map fixed by the Dodge engineers. It would help if we know what that strategy is - I doubt if they will publish it.
I was trying to find out how to calculate GPH to cc/min and found this site...
http://www.azmoon-m.com/other/conv_table.asp

based off my calculation to get 10% water to fuel... with stage 2...
Stage 2 has 682cc/min injectors.. so thats 2728cc/min of fuel at WOT..
so 10% means I need 272.8 cc/min of water ...
272.8/62.89=4.3 GPH
so the injector I would need for my system is 4.3 GPH...


I'm going to start with a 3.0 GPH, and step up the PSI a little bit..

am I correct in saying that a smaller injector, say rated 3.0 GPH @ 60PSI, will atomize the water better when its running 3.9 GPH @ 100psi?

Also could you double check my math?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 17-05-2005, 02:56 AM
ctischmick ctischmick is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L
So when you dial in the HOM, baby step down your water flow until you have achieved the perfect match with the HOM map fixed by the Dodge engineers. It would help if we know what that strategy is - I doubt if they will publish it.
From Stage 2 Website by Mopar:

Fill the tank with 100 (R+M)/2 octane unleaded fuel, press the red switch located on the Turbo Toys bezel, and discover instant torque and power gains. The PCM will increase spark advance and adjust fueling to take full advantage of the 100 octane unleaded fuel. The red indicator lamp will illuminate when High Octane Mode is active.

During High Octane Mode operation, the PCM prevents damaging detonation via the OEM knock detection system. High Octane Mode will be bypassed if damaging knock is detected. The red indicator lamp will blink when High Octane Mode is bypassed. Spark advance and fueling are returned to standard levels in bypass mode. The blinking indicator light can be turned off by pressing the red High Octane Mode switch. Entering bypass mode is an indication that higher octane fuel is required.

NOTE: It is recommended that the level of premium fuel be as low as possible when adding high octane fuel. The tank level should be reduced until the low fuel indicator is blinking and filled completely with 100 (R+M)/2 octane unleaded fuel before the High Octane Mode is engaged. The use of leaded fuels will cause damage to the vehicle?s catalytic converter and oxygen sensors.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 17-05-2005, 10:32 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctischmick

So when you dial in the HOM, baby step down your water flow until you have achieved the perfect match with the HOM map fixed by the Dodge engineers. It would help if we know what that strategy is - I doubt if they will publish it.

I was trying to find out how to calculate GPH to cc/min and found this site...
http://www.azmoon-m.com/other/conv_table.asp

based off my calculation to get 10% water to fuel... with stage 2...
Stage 2 has 682cc/min injectors.. so thats 2728cc/min of fuel at WOT..
so 10% means I need 272.8 cc/min of water ...
272.8/62.89=4.3 GPH
so the injector I would need for my system is 4.3 GPH...


I'm going to start with a 3.0 GPH, and step up the PSI a little bit..

am I correct in saying that a smaller injector, say rated 3.0 GPH @ 60PSI, will atomize the water better when its running 3.9 GPH @ 100psi?

Also could you double check my math?

Your calculation is accurate according to the table. But please do test the flow by injecting water into a measuring glass.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 17-05-2005, 10:43 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctischmick

From Stage 2 Website by Mopar:

Fill the tank with 100 (R+M)/2 octane unleaded fuel, press the red switch located on the Turbo Toys bezel, and discover instant torque and power gains. The PCM will increase spark advance and adjust fueling to take full advantage of the 100 octane unleaded fuel. The red indicator lamp will illuminate when High Octane Mode is active.

During High Octane Mode operation, the PCM prevents damaging detonation via the OEM knock detection system. High Octane Mode will be bypassed if damaging knock is detected. The red indicator lamp will blink when High Octane Mode is bypassed. Spark advance and fueling are returned to standard levels in bypass mode. The blinking indicator light can be turned off by pressing the red High Octane Mode switch. Entering bypass mode is an indication that higher octane fuel is required.

NOTE: It is recommended that the level of premium fuel be as low as possible when adding high octane fuel. The tank level should be reduced until the low fuel indicator is blinking and filled completely with 100 (R+M)/2 octane unleaded fuel before the High Octane Mode is engaged. The use of leaded fuels will cause damage to the vehicle?s catalytic converter and oxygen sensors.
I am trying to think of a way to tap into the "panel" so that we know the HOM is activated. May be the red led is a good indication to give a "do ahead" signal for the water injection to activate to replace race-fuel.

Ideally if water fault is detected, we have a means of cancelling the HOM mode. Alternatively let the panel to do it automatically when knock is detected..
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 21-05-2005, 10:14 PM
turbojack turbojack is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Jersey U.S.A.
Posts: 49
Default Priming pump and pulse extender

Richard I have some questions about placement and hookup of a pulse extender that was made for me

The water supply is coming from a fuel cell that is mounted in the trunk (priming pump is mounted to the fuel cell mounting bracket). The pulse extender that was made for me is is in a hobby box along with the needed 12V 10-20A relay.

After looking at the diagram posted in the "Double The Flow Rate of your Aquamist Pump" thread and looking at pages 6 & 7 "DDS3 - Generic Connection Diagram" of the DDS3 manual.

from DDS3 manual page 6:
on the junction box pin 21 is priming pump power
on the junction box pin 22 is priming pump ground

Can I mount the pulse extender w/relay in the the trunk next to the priming pump and do I, using the red wire from pin #21 solder into red wire relay power for the pulse extender? Do I, solder the black wire from pin #22 to the black wire on the priming pump (ground)? This sounds correct to me just need for you to confirm.

Do I run grey and black wires from the pulse extender (H1 & H2) in the trunk to the 806-201 water pressure switch which is under the hood near the Aquamist pump?

So as to avoid any confusion I have supplied additional info with what I have:

The priming pump that I have is an Anco generic washer pump (kit number 65-01, P/N on pump 99600), this has two wires:
1) red = power
2) black = ground

The pulse extender and the relay are together in a hobby box (your schematic was used when making it). The wires exiting from the box are:

1) Black - labled H2 (water pressure switch?)

2) Grey - labled H1 (water pressure switch?)

3) Red - labled power (to pin #21 on DDS3 junction box?)

4) Yellow - pump (to red wire at washer pump?)

From what I can tell after writing this I think I'm correct with above. If I'm not correct or if you see an error (maybe typo) please correct me.

Thanks
Jack
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 22-05-2005, 12:33 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default

turbojack wrote:

The pulse extender and the relay are together in a hobby box (your schematic was used when making it). The wires exiting from the box are:

1) Black - labled H2 (water pressure switch?)
2) Grey - labled H1 (water pressure switch?)
3) Red - labled power (to pin #21 on DDS3 junction box?)
4) Yellow - pump (to red wire at washer pump?)


Since the pulse extender is made for you by someone, could you ask the person to post the circuit with "wire out" colour so that I can check. I know some colours are pretty obvious, but I would like to be 100% sure before saying "YES"
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 22-05-2005, 12:52 AM
turbojack turbojack is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Jersey U.S.A.
Posts: 49
Default

I have forwarded the request for him to come here and post. He and I are suposed to talk tomorrow, maybe he has time before then to answer your question.

Thanks,
Jack
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.