Injecting prior to turbo comp' impellers

[T.F.S.]

Yea I would be interested to hear how much they would cost.

[T.F.S.]

Well moar methanol arrived today so I filled up a 15/75 water meth mix and went for a datalog run...I managed to change the software so the inlet temps are much easier to see too!

After the last run on a 50/50 mix I was expecting temps to be quite low but this was not the case!!!, the temps smashed into the 80c region pretty dam quick



I am not sure why that is...its pretty much the worst temps I have seen yet and I had to check the tank volume to assure myself that the WI system had activated at all on this run

AFR was hitting 10.0/1 which is the lowest my AEM will read (so who knows what the real AFR was)

If this is going to work we are going to need a LOT more liquid injected at this mixture level


Another two runs on different mixtures show the same thing...massive spike on first application

Run 2 50/50 methanol/H20



Run 3 50/50 ethanol/H20



It was obvious something wasnt right here...thats not what you expect from a WI system, a leak was suspected but upon checking could not be found

[T.F.S.]

So it seemed that rather than a leak it was air that was pushing through the post turbo injectors and managing to empty the lines through the pre compressor injector. This gave a delay in injection delivery so temps were seen spiking upon first application in the logs above.

This was rectified by fitting a check valve just before the pre compressor injector.



A D05 injector was also fitted between turbo and dump valve at this point.







The next run went very well..helped along by low ambient temps (16c) and a nice dry road allowing me to hit max RPM and hold the throttle wide open for some time, temps were back in the low 40's at max RPM and stayed in the 30c region at lower RPM's which is almost exactly what I aimed to get at the beginning of this project

The initial spike in inlet temps we saw in the last log was absent from the data, the check valve doing its job!

The car didn't bog or misfire, nice clean power although fueling is (as expected) still pig rich and requires some remapping to clear up.

I thought I had saved the format from the last log I done but for some reason it reverted back to normal so I have done several screenshots.


Initial application of throttle from 2k through to approx 6750rpm (engine limiter), 42c max inlet temp recorded




Into third, max inlet temp 43c at 6750rpm




6750rpm in 4th gear shows 44c


The other two high RPM peaks further over to the right again max out at 41/42c


I may add a touch more WM mix for the next log.

[RICE RACING]

Good to see someone taking leaf out of my book of testing

NOTE:
I'd like you to refine your Link G4 records and simply crop the screen shots down to the applicable test (be it 3rd gear pull or whatever) and give us a start marker and and end marker with the cursor on each point. *see my tests of like 90kmh to 140kmh* 3rd gear or whatever you choose to do.

100kmh to 200kmh is nice, though if somewhat impractical to test each and every time.

It will make it easier to follow and compare as you keep adding lots and lots of info on your path to discovery.

It will also help you quantify in a basic way performance tests if you pick a standard and stick to it, then you can easily measure time plots to speed increments etc, its never 100% accurate using ECU data but its a great guide if you keep the variables in check and dont cheat yourself running under weight or down hill lol.

Keep up the good work, its one man testing like this that make this site worth reading and inspires people of all backgrounds, resource levels and skill levels.

Peter

[T.F.S.]

Most if not all of the tests are beginning of 2nd to end of 4th on the same stretch of road, sometimes I cant pull top RPM due to wet roads (we have a LOT of that in the UK at the moment)

I don't think I have seen any of your testing threads, are they on here buddy?

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by T.F.S.

Most if not all of the tests are beginning of 2nd to end of 4th on the same stretch of road, sometimes I cant pull top RPM due to wet roads (we have a LOT of that in the UK at the moment)

I don't think I have seen any of your testing threads, are they on here buddy?

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/...t=1590&page=25

There you go.

[RICE RACING]

SNAP SHOT:

I am running another 100kpa more boost than you are, with lower charge temp. Very small factory IC being used for historic reason (1 of 25 race special made cars I test this stuff on).

Have a read, there is lots and lots of good info, may save you some time and grief ?

I recommend an inter cooler and WM50 injection and spraying the IC@! but this is at very high levels of power, as proven by vehicle performance linked above.

Anyhow, keep up your testing its people like you that make this site worth while.

[T.F.S.]

Another D05/5gph injector added..hope to shave a few more degrees off the inlet temps on the next midnight run



I would guess that the temp just before the cylinder is a good 5 degrees lower than the temp i have recorded pre throttle body...IIRC atomisation suffers at under 30/40c so I have pretty much suceeded in what I aimed to do at this point and the extra 5gph injector is not needed really.

[stevieturbo]

When dumping so much water/meth in, it could become hard to actually measure intake temps.

How much is actual charge temp and how much is simply the fluid temperature on the sensor ?

Has anyone done any testing before and after the nozzles using a few sensors ?

Maybe stick a thermocouple into the intake manifold close to the intake valve, so hopefully any state changes have already occurred by then so may give a better picture of actual charge temp ?

I did try my own car a few days back with 2 nozzles pre TB and a single 1.1mm in front of the compressor.
There was no measurable performance gain over no WI despite running slightly leaner with some 5deg more timing.
Although I suspect it's down to me fitting a new 200psi pump as well. I'm probably just drowning the engine with water/meth 40/60

need to resolve a few other issues before can try anything more.

I'd previously been using an 5 year old 150psi pump and two of the largest AEM jets. the new 200psi pump must be flowing a huge amount more !

Water does not do a great deal for IAT cooling after the compressor. The boiling and flash point of methanol make it much more effective for IAT cooling. What happens in the chamber is another matter and argument, but for purely IAT reduction, pure methanol is the most effective.

We have measured a 140F drop in IAT to 40F below ambient at times with pure methanol.