waterinjection.info  

Go Back   waterinjection.info > Injection Applications (making it work) > Diesel

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22-05-2005, 07:11 PM
sideshowbob sideshowbob is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3
Default 2.5 non turbo diesel

I have a 2.5L non turbo Ford Transit that I want to fit a water injection system to. I have experemented with H2O injection in the past with a 2.0 petrol engine, gettign a small but measurable decrease in fuel consumption and very good emission readings.
The amount of water I was injecting was approx 10% fuel volume.
Does anyone have any advice? I am not looking for big power increases rather increase in economy and reduction in emmissions.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24-05-2005, 10:08 PM
Prometeus Prometeus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zelo Buon Persico
Posts: 50
Default

Hi sideshow

should try with a special mixture of water/gasoil (the so called Aquazole by Total ) and use a mixture of water and methanol instead of only water... you'll enjoy the engine both in NOx reduction and in power increasing... (Done in March 2004 with a 1.2 "turbo" diesel engine)

Unfortunatly these datas are not officially yet because there are many other troubles in emissions. WI reduces NOx but increase some other pollutant emissions.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 25-05-2005, 10:06 PM
sideshowbob sideshowbob is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3
Default

Thanks for your reply Prometeus, - so far I have not fitted anything to the engine, I have just bought the van and it is in need of some work as it is I was thinking of making the WI part of the refurbishment.
I have the pump I used on the petrol engine, an all plastic, low pressure fuel lift pump.
On the previous instalation the pump fed a jet made from a peice of copper capilary tube fed down into the inlet manifold below the carburettor. The flow was controled by a needle valve linked to the throttle linkage, set to start flowing at 1/3 throttle.
The transit has an exhaust recirculation system linked to throttle position and maniold vacuum. I was thinking of using this mechanism to control the water flow.
I realise the manifold vacuum will be much lower than on the petrol engine but was thinking of using a small venturi to help atomise the water jet, and so overcome the lack of pressure on my delivery pump.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 26-05-2005, 01:53 PM
Prometeus Prometeus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zelo Buon Persico
Posts: 50
Default

Well... the steps might be these:

1st step- U need to control WI strictly to diesel injection pump first of all.

2nd step- Should use Aquazole instead of normal Diesel fuel

3rd step- Should use a mixture of 50/50 Water and Methanol.

4th step- the WI should pass through the air inflow

5th step- should be better to use a prepared pump like the one of the
Aquamist... because it is already ready for these steps

You might occour a control system like the one I've used to my first engine... if you'll agree to make these steps should contact Richard L and ask him to prepare a control system like the one he prepared for the Lombardini in Italy... tell him I told you and he will understand, I suppose. :roll: :wink:
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 26-05-2005, 02:00 PM
the-dubster the-dubster is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lincolnshire, England
Posts: 22
Default

Slight correction, the 50/50 mix of water meth is not good for diesel applications. Richard L has done tests and found that as little as 20% Methanol in water can cause detonation - he recommends a safer limit of 12.5% meth to water - (not sure if this just applies to turbo applications though, due to the higher compression causing detonation - best to check with the man first) see the '306TD' thread under this Diesel Index.

One other thing, unless i'm very much mistaken, due to the lack of a throttle plate, diesels don't run any noticeable vacuum in the inlet manifold - hence the requirement for a seperate brake servo vacuum pump (and seperate vacuum pump if you're daft enough to think a turbo diesel needs a 'Dump Valve').

the-dubster
__________________
A yard full of cars and not enough money......yet! (Oh, and a turbo diesel......sorry)

There are 10 kinds of people; those who understand binary, and those who don't!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 26-05-2005, 03:21 PM
Prometeus Prometeus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zelo Buon Persico
Posts: 50
Default

Hi dub...

I don't really know the preparation of the peugeot. I'll look in the forum.

We have just finished an Alfa GT 1.9 Mjet bringing it to 207 HP starting from 150 HP and no problems in 50/50 mixture. The car is very very very :twisted: ... I drove it for few miles... I did not want to get down from that I simply was desiring to take it my home

I'll look... but it might also depend on which kind of engine are u talking about. Fiat engines have more ability in resisting to methanol. Otherwise our WI is working only in acceleration and not in cruising. This avoid the trouble of having more water than diesel in the engine while it is working.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 26-05-2005, 03:36 PM
the-dubster the-dubster is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lincolnshire, England
Posts: 22
Default

As i'm just pointing to to information contained in another part of the forum and not quoting from personal experience I will bow to your greater knowledge and experience.

If above 12.5% WILL work you can just bet I'm gonna try it :twisted:

Incidentally, having more water than diesel should also not be a problem as diesels can run with up to 300% water to fuel (same source as the previous 20% methanol detonation discussion). Now that's a LOT of water - or to put it another way - a LOT of potential boost.

cheers

Andy 'the-dubster'
__________________
A yard full of cars and not enough money......yet! (Oh, and a turbo diesel......sorry)

There are 10 kinds of people; those who understand binary, and those who don't!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 26-05-2005, 03:42 PM
Prometeus Prometeus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zelo Buon Persico
Posts: 50
Default

Hi dubster,

I saw the forum about the peugeot. Yes the way Richard said is the correct one... but the implantation system we use is ratherly correct as the one of Richard.

I did some tests with him... it is a math operation.

He uses 100% injection power with M at 12.5%

We're using 40% maximum power injection with M at 50%

It is quite same matematically... the difference stands in the reaction of the car...

By our way (may call it Italian Style :lol: ) you will have less power (about 8% less than Richard way) but in very fastest time.

By the way of Richard (may call it English Style :roll: ) you will have more power with your car but in a little more time.

Regards
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26-05-2005, 03:48 PM
Prometeus Prometeus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zelo Buon Persico
Posts: 50
Default

Same in football

Milan scored 3 goals at first... but Liverpool brought the cup home
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 26-05-2005, 03:51 PM
the-dubster the-dubster is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lincolnshire, England
Posts: 22
Default

Thanks for clearing that up Prometeus, I've currently got a thread running here - the DIY WI thread, and am struggling to find a low cost high pressure pump. Maybe your way will suit me. If you could let me know what pressure you are running your pumps at in the other thread (as opposed to me cluttering this one up with stuff about my peugeot) and what nozzles you use - it would be great.

Thanks

Andy

Sorry for hi-jacking your thread sideshow bob ops:
__________________
A yard full of cars and not enough money......yet! (Oh, and a turbo diesel......sorry)

There are 10 kinds of people; those who understand binary, and those who don't!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.