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Old 30-04-2007, 03:34 AM
emarsh emarsh is offline
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Default Where to start

Hi folks,

Ive got a turbocharged Suzuki motorcycle I'm setting up for drag racing. It's got an Aquamist system on it that I had installed when it was a street bike, though it was never used very much.

I'm trying to get a handle on how to best set things up. For example, should I use the water injection or just race gas? I'm initially planning to use about 16psi of boost with an 8.8-1 CR. I'm installing an o2 sensor/logger. Will water injection affect my readings? If I use the water injection, what's a good nozzle and at what point should I be activating it?

Any suggestions or pointers will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Eric Marsh
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Old 01-05-2007, 06:35 AM
hotrod hotrod is offline
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Default motorcycle forum

You might get better responses to your particular situation in the motorcycle forum.

That will be frequented by folks with first person experience with WI in your application.
That said most of the WI info is pretty universal and the guidelines for water injection rates etc. are posted here in several of the discussion threads. You will find most folks use a rule of thumb of somewhere in the neighborhood of 10% -15% of your fuel flow rate as a starting point.

Take a bit of time and browse through the technical forums and you will find a couple days worth of very useful reading on problems folks have faced, and what has worked and not worked in various applications.

Jet (nozzle) sizing depends on lots of things like your system pressure, how you set the system up, (single jet or multiple jet),
how the system is triggered, how hard you will be pushing things etc.

You will need to consider how hard you are pushing your engine to get a feel for when and how much injection to use.

This website has a lot of good info on motorcycle applications and they certainly have the experience with it to answer any specific questions that apply only to motorcycles.

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

Larry
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Old 01-05-2007, 01:36 PM
emarsh emarsh is offline
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I thought I'd posted in the general forum (how did my post end up in "Avoiding Disaster"?) because the motorcycle forum looks pretty dead. The last post is almost a year ago. I figured that my questions are really universal. A motorcycle doesn't behave any differently than another gasoline engine.

I looked over the page you suggested. What's interesting is that it contradicts info I've read in other places, such as which alcohol to use. I guess everyone has their own opinions.
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Old 02-05-2007, 11:05 AM
hotrod hotrod is offline
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I had not been in the motorcycle forum for a while and did not realize it was dead -- probably right but you will get more views here for sure.

That page does not really counterdict other recommendations as much as give a more balanced view on the choice of alcohols.

In high injection levels methanol can lead to pre-ignition, that is one of the reasons most people standardized on a 50/50 mix of water and methanol 50 years ago.

For all practical purposes in WI applications Methanol and Ethanol are interchangable from the point of the engine. In WWII fighters and bombers they found that the two alcohols could be substituted for each other with no changes in tuning. At that time they were staying away from ethanol to avoid problems with human consumption for one thing. It (ethaol) was used in U.S. Navy torpedos as a fuel and keeping it out of the sailors was a problem. Also back then they were not as concerned with its toxic issues as we are today. There is a problem with using ethanol in some water injection system simply because of the choice of seals used in the pumps etc. That is the case with Aquamist, the race pump was developed with Methanol in mind, and at that time fuel ethanol was not widely available.

I use methanol in my home built system simply because I can buy fuel grade methanol for significantly less money and hassle than I can fuel grade ethanol. The only place I can buy fuel grade ethanol is a considerable drive but it costs not much more than the methanol that I can buy on the way to fuel the car at a local race shop.

Isopropyl alcohol works fine if the system is tuned for it but it needs a different tune than either Methanol or Ethanol so is not as interchangable. On the other hand it is very easily availble almost anywhere in the drug stores and grocery stores for 50 cents a bottle. That makes it very desirable for some folks and the Buick GN crowd seems to favor it for that reason.


As you say, engines are engines and in terms of basic applications there should be no difference. I was assuming that some of the motorcycle folks could give you a leg up on combinations and injection rates that are already proven to work in the small displacement and high reving engines.

Larry
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