RICESP Water Injected RX7

[downpipe12]

The aquamist stuff is really nice, I agree. I am currently running an old SMC kit which I picked up used...it does the job well enough for now. I run a 50/50 mix post turbo and definitely picked up some solid gains...I would say around 40whp...plus quicker spool, and smoother acceleration. I do not do my own tuning, but from viewing the logs it appears to be a combination of the typical...leaner mixture, more boost, more timing. Better fuel economy too...I picked up about 30 miles or so per tank.

From what I have read, it would seem that the main advantage to injecting pre-turbo is that injecting there actually effectively changes the compressor map and improves the overall efficiency of the turbo itself, in addition to all the other commonly known benefits.

Personally, I am debating whether or not to add another nozzle pre-turbo...somehow try and get the best of both worlds.

This is a bunch of great info. Has me inspired to get a nozzle and start experimenting.

Looks like you have quite the following on other forums as well;

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/nitr...ved-today.html :lol:

[RICE RACING]

This is what I like about friendly forum like this with similar thinking individuals, we can all do our little bit of testing and gain inspiration from each other (which is important if you have been doing it for many years on end!) some days cars and testing can get the better of you :roll:

My own view is that at least I probably am still learning from all of the stuff done in prior history, I am trying to be thorough with it and invested in the Race Logic VBOX3i gear so I could for myself as much as for others have something where I can know what has a positive effect or negative (in terms of car performance). Its great if more and more of us *time/wifes/life permitting* keep learning and not only help ourselves but each other in getting the most out of this stuff.

Nice posted link too, I signed up there but it would not let me post for some reason, then I though I am on so many forums I just can not justify the time to repeat myself over and over.......... though I would love to help as many people as is possible when it comes to my own experiences with water injection. It is the thing I find most interesting out of all of the engineering aspects on cars, I am still fascinated by it & that is saying something :lol:

[Richard L]

Thanks for sharing the technology behind your clever system. I have seen quite a few systems around but with a lesser tunability than yours. You are miles ahead on controlling flow.

You are correct, the forum is for anyone who is interested in the concept of WI, at any level of understanding. I keep the commercial part on the sponsers forum. I got drawn in to this many years ago, was inspired by an engineer. As usual, the curosity got the better of me and never looked back. I was lucky that I already have a ready made workshop where electronics and mechanical parts can be develeped, just need the will.

I think you can further this system by adding an air pump so it can be injected post turbo, not that it is needed. If you seriously want to market this to the masses, This issue will be raised by your copycat competitiors.

I have first read this on a book where VW have experimented water injection with air assisted nozzle. I will try to scan it an dpost it here - if I can find it.

Keep up with the good work.

[RICE RACING]

Will do and thanks Richard and everyone else for making me so welcome here.

Now, I just cant stop wanting to drive the car :smile: I have my local VBOX supplier sending me his own frequency input module until they figure out what to do with mine so I can recommence some proper testing, it may be here hopefully by the end of the week and I will put up some fancy graphs for you all to look over. This will be without EGT readings though, the very fine exposed tip thermocouples I used in both front and rear rotor have gone open circuit, they both failed within 100km of each other after around ~3500km of use. Its quite complex a task to replace these so wont be done any time soon, however they did last long enough for me to get the balance right across all manifold pressures and rpm ranges between both rotors.

We all appreciate the data and knowledge you post up.

On a side note, I have number of TC's throughout the inlet track on my car and find that some fail very quickly from what seems to be high frequency vibration. I use small exposed element units as well. 3500km seems about average for some of the problem units I have. It's hard to find something that reacts fast enough but is durable as well.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by Howerton Engineering

On a side note, I have number of TC's throughout the inlet track on my car and find that some fail very quickly from what seems to be high frequency vibration. I use small exposed element units as well. 3500km seems about average for some of the problem units I have. It's hard to find something that reacts fast enough but is durable as well.

Tell me about it, on this car I have recorded on average much higher EGT temps than I am usually used to but Ironically the pipes and turbo after a run show not as much basic color "glowing" I always used shielded probes and run them much closer to the wall of the pipe, this time I decided to use exposed versions of smaller wire diameter for both elements and allot closer to the center region of gas flow, the response was unreal and for the first time I was getting real EGT readings that were comparable to other data I have on file from SAE wankel engine reports *turbocharged* even have one from an old Lotus 4 cyl turbo which showed 1000+deg C temps pre turbo on moderate power of only about 200bhp or so and T3 frame turbo.

I believe I got the true readings but as you say the longevity is just not there, I guess there is no basic solution to this... all things like moving them closer to outer wall, using thicker wire constructions and even shielding will all help but you will never know the true temperatures :? They did do their job though so am happy, I established a pattern for fuel richness to EGT and try to strike a balance between those two and not have miss fire due to inadequate ignition energy. Thing I did notice (just as in one excellent paper I have on the topic) that excessive WI on a heavy mixture even with full spark and no apparent miss fire does cost a lot of power with coolish charge temperature.

Looks like you've been through a lot with the TC's. My intake are 1/16" SS sheath, exposed junction TC's. They definitely don't like any vibration, especially from an M45 SC up near 18000rpm. In the exhaust I probably am not getting the response you are or I would like, but it has lasted. It's got a much thicker sheath but still exposed junction. Here's what's in the exhaust;

http://tscsensors.com/egtep0720001ssnexhau.html

Not sure how it compares to yours, but so far so good.

[RICE RACING]

They look really nice, I will order two of them, mine is basically the same except the exposed junction extends out past the end another 5mm or so, I believe the wire has broken on both. Those probes you pictured def wont suffer that problem.

[RICE RACING]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/nitr...p-33-69tq.html

I thought this was a nice simple basic test on that forum, for 50/50 Water Methanol and 500cc nozzel, note it is not pre turbo though. It shows no power gain (on/off) on same engine set up specifications. Its a bit too much fluid in my experience for that level of power, but non the less its good to see stuff like that posted.