2005 Porsche Twin Turbo "S" & WI (Proposed)

[ShokWaveRider]

Richard:

I did send you an email on this. I am looking for the right WI solution for my Porsche. You worked with me a few years ago in pioneering the Lotus V8 implementation Using the 3D Unit. I learned a lot from that and have highlighted my thoughts in the email.

Here are the Porsche Specs:

Boost - 1.3 Bar sustained @ 6000 rpm, Flashed DME/ECU, Upgraded Exhaust, Bypass Valves, Headers Etc.

The car is stock other than that. I am running the stock inter coolers and plan on putting the jets (x 2) directly into the "Y" Pipe just where they join the inter cooler supply pipes about 12: from the plenum.

Here are some questions:

1) I really like what the 2D system does, but would prefer a different non impact style pump
2) Can I get away with a single Jet in the center of the "Y" Pipe? (See below Photo)
3) For either option, 1 or 2 jets, what would be the optimum jet size(s) needed.
4) I am going to use the Stock Wiper/Washer Fluid reservoir as a water/alcohol source (7 liters) I will need a supply adapter do I need a float switch as I already have a warning light in the car.
5) Can I use the 2D system but with a different pump or should I just go with the HFS-6?
6) I want to trigger fluid supply from a combination of Boost & Injector Duty Cycle.

Any help would be appreciated. Check my Web Site and it will trigger your memory about the Lotus Install.

Here is a Photo of my proposed Positioning:

Note: The single Jet approach can be done from below vertically also.



Thanks

[Richard L]

Of cause I remembered the project, It was quite advanced at the time, there was hardly any other WI makers existed.

My first question will be, is the system tuned before applying water injection and left alone or will you be tuning it after the WI install?

My anwer will be much much more accurate based on your anwer above, anyway I have a go...

1) We have an option of a aquatec pump, workong in bypass mode, no more impact noises.
2) I think looking at your setup, you need a at least a 1mm jet, expecting you will have around 500-550HP. This based on M50:W50 mix.
3) Depend on below:
- 100% water ........ 10-15% ratio to fuel
- M50:W50 ........ 15-20% ratio to fuel
- M100 ........... 29-25% to fuel
(add up up you fuel injectors)
4) What is the Mehtanol % on your screen washer fluid - recalculate based on the above answer.
5) We cannot supply a 2d system with a shurflo pump - It is possble be messy because I don't have a precise instriction how that can be done. If yopu can live with the HFS-6, it will be ideal because fuel flow signal is scalable by the user.
6) The HFS-6 can only be triggered by IDC but you can offset the flow with the pressure signal.

Richard

[ShokWaveRider]

Richard:

Thanks for the reply.

In response to your first question, The tuning mentioned above has already been done. This is how the car sits now, I have no plans for more, it is a daily driver and a street car only, no tracking ever will occur in this cars life, at least as long as I own it. (Only 6k miles only so far. A Total Garage Queen) :

(Boost - 1.3 Bar sustained @ 6000 rpm, Flashed DME/ECU, Upgraded Exhaust, Bypass Valves, Headers Etc. )

Based on your previous response I need some Clarification.

Richard: I think looking at your setup, you need a at least a 1mm jet, expecting you will have around 500-550HP. This based on M50:W50 mix.
Ian: Is this for a Single Jet or 2. After some thought I am inclined to go with 2 Jets mounted virtically from the bottom as opposed to a single one as I can get them away from the Plenum which is my preference, does this mean I can get away with say .7's or .8's?

Richard: What is the Mehtanol % on your screen washer fluid - recalculate based on the above answer.
Ian: This is a tricky one as they do not post it exactly on the products, but I would say 30% - 40% based on some charts I have looked at. Basing it on 10 - 15% RtF would be concervative, I will never go over 50:50. I still am a little unclear on how to calcultate the jet size based on HP and RtF % :?: How do I calculate the flow needed in CC/MIN from the number I have available? 160psi - 20psi boost = 140, a 1mm jet would be roughly 550 cc/min per the chart in the manual.

Richard: The HFS-6 can only be triggered by IDC but you can offset the flow with the pressure signal.
Ian: Last Time I used the 2s system on the Lotus but It was overkill. I Like the FiA2 concept, The HFS-6 has that Gauge that is a little obvious when in the CAB. I am not a Pod type of guy and think they look a little undignified in this type of car. That is my only issue with the HFS-6. Also Why is the HFS Series not on your web site for scrutiny? :wink: I also like the concept of Boost triggered flow. What also I do not understand is the flow phased in on the HFS-6 like it was on the 2s, and is it also phased in on the 2d. as I do not really understand the adjustments available on the HFS-6 yet, I am still in design mode look at all the options you have

In addition on the Porsche everything is in reverse. The Trunk is in the front and Engine at the back. Well as you may know the engine bay is very small and HOT. Can the FCM stay in the front with the pump and supply fluid the length of the car, or should it be closer to the jets?

As mentioned I think the ideal would be a 2d with a rotary pump. But one always wants what one can'y get right? Also the 2d system seems somewhat dated in comparison to the HFS Series, is tha true? Bottom line, which pump is better regardless of noise?

SWR

[Richard L]

I reply in red...

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider

Richard:

Thanks for the reply.

In response to your first question, The tuning mentioned above has already been done. This is how the car sits now, I have no plans for more, it is a daily driver and a street car only, no tracking ever will occur in this cars life, at least as long as I own it. (Only 6k miles only so far. A Total Garage Queen) :

(Boost - 1.3 Bar sustained @ 6000 rpm, Flashed DME/ECU, Upgraded Exhaust, Bypass Valves, Headers Etc. )

Based on your previous response I need some Clarification.

Richard: I think looking at your setup, you need a at least a 1mm jet, expecting you will have around 500-550HP. This based on M50:W50 mix.
Ian: Is this for a Single Jet or 2. After some thought I am inclined to go with 2 Jets mounted virtically from the bottom as opposed to a single one as I can get them away from the Plenum which is my preference, does this mean I can get away with say .7's or .8's?
Richard: I like two jets because you cover a larger area. 0.7mm and 0.8mm is good for the HFS-6 as the IDC signal is totally scabable. You can electronically alter the flow rate.


Richard: What is the Mehtanol % on your screen washer fluid - recalculate based on the above answer.
Ian: This is a tricky one as they do not post it exactly on the products, but I would say 30% - 40% based on some charts I have looked at. Basing it on 10 - 15% RtF would be concervative, I will never go over 50:50. I still am a little unclear on how to calcultate the jet size based on HP and RtF % :?: How do I calculate the flow needed in CC/MIN from the number I have available? 160psi - 20psi boost = 140, a 1mm jet would be roughly 550 cc/min per the chart in the manual.
I based on 1 litre of fuel = 200hp. It is just an estimate until someone shows me the dyno plot.


Richard: The HFS-6 can only be triggered by IDC but you can offset the flow with the pressure signal.
Ian: Last Time I used the 2s system on the Lotus but It was overkill. I Like the FiA2 concept, The HFS-6 has that Gauge that is a little obvious when in the CAB. I am not a Pod type of guy and think they look a little undignified in this type of car. That is my only issue with the HFS-6. Also Why is the HFS Series not on your web site for scrutiny? :wink: I also like the concept of Boost triggered flow. What also I do not understand is the flow phased in on the HFS-6 like it was on the 2s, and is it also phased in on the 2d. as I do not really understand the adjustments available on the HFS-6 yet, I am still in design mode look at all the options you have
Richard: You can put the guage in the glove compartment. The HFS-6 will not work without the gauge. Iam very behind with updating the website. I have little time to woprk on the website due to the on going development work. It won;t help of I ask someone to do it becuase I stillneed to provide all the information. Th eHFS=6 is the same as the 2d, but you can scale the flow up or down, that is all.

Ian: In addition on the Porsche everything is in reverse. The Trunk is in the front and Engine at the back. Well as you may know the engine bay is very small and HOT. Can the FCM stay in the front with the pump and supply fluid the length of the car, or should it be closer to the jets?
Richard: NO, the FCM must ne cloase to the water injector, we can put it on the other side of the firewall, behind the rear seat.

Ian: As mentioned I think the ideal would be a 2d with a rotary pump. But one always wants what one can'y get right? Also the 2d system seems somewhat dated in comparison to the HFS Series, is tha true? Bottom line, which pump is better regardless of noise?
Richard: The HFS-5 work just like the 2d if you leave all the adjust alone from factory.The GFS-6 pump is not as noisy as the 2d pump.
SWR

[ShokWaveRider]

Richard:

Is the pump location critical? Can I put it in the wheel well behind the Driver's Side Radiator fan? Or will it be too hot for it?

Thanks

Ian

[Richard L]

The water pump has a thermal cut out of ~82C. If you put the pump in a hot environment, it will reach the cut out point sooner. I think putting you tank and pump in the front trunk will be ideal.

[ShokWaveRider]

Originally Posted by Richard L

The water pump has a thermal cut out of ~82C. If you put the pump in a hot environment, it will reach the cut out point sooner. I think putting you tank and pump in the front trunk will be ideal.

Thanks, I was hoping to do a little more stealthy install than that. I want to have the car look as stock as possible.

I am going to use the stock tank (7 liters) and hopefully the stock level indicator. It has a switch similar to yours I think I may be able to tap the wires and pass them to the HFS-6 controller, do you think that would work?

I am still looking for a suitable spot for the pump that is out of the way and below the feed from the tank.