waterinjection.info  

Go Back   waterinjection.info > Injection Applications (making it work) > Gasoline Forced-Induction

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #511  
Old 06-03-2015, 10:31 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default Re: Injecting prior to turbo comp' impellers

Quote:
Originally Posted by HYDE16 View Post
Hey Richard thank you so much. It took a while but it's the finished effect I'm after. The CoolingMist solenoid was a leftover part which I decided to use basically as an on/off valve for the pre-turbo .3mm jet. I can open this solenoid from a button inside the cabin, basically allowing me to choose when I want to use pre-turbo injection and inititally to be able to run data logs back to back to test with and without pre-turbo injection.

In the GTI they are routed through the glove box, firewall and then alongside the passenger side fender. I have some extra wire bundled up but I don't think it will reach around the front of the engine bay, I may have to try and re-route through the firewall. Ideally I will find a way to get the FAV on the driver's side on this custom fabricated plate to keep it all together.

The main question I have now is do you foresee any issues the way it's routed now? Pressure drop, leaks, bursts, lower flow rate?
I cannot see any issues with long hose runs, as long as the debris is CVJ is debris free. If there is a leak developed on one CVJ, there is a risk of the vacuum pulling the the fluid out of the other hoses. If the hose interconnections amongst the FAV, hex manifold and the cVJ are kept to a minimum, there will not be too much fluid there to be emptied.

We are not talking about any risk of a hydrolock, but it will cause a slight delay on the next injection event where the hoses has to be refilled before pressure is being build up.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #512  
Old 07-03-2015, 12:40 AM
HYDE16 HYDE16 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Morris County, NJ
Posts: 47
Default Re: Injecting prior to turbo comp' impellers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
I cannot see any issues with long hose runs, as long as the debris is CVJ is debris free. If there is a leak developed on one CVJ, there is a risk of the vacuum pulling the the fluid out of the other hoses. If the hose interconnections amongst the FAV, hex manifold and the cVJ are kept to a minimum, there will not be too much fluid there to be emptied.

We are not talking about any risk of a hydrolock, but it will cause a slight delay on the next injection event where the hoses has to be refilled before pressure is being build up.
Thank you Richard, that makes me feel a lot better about this setup the way it is. Next step is to data log to see if my settings require a change due to the possible delay on the next injection event. If so I'll adjust via the HFS-4 board. If it requires a good amount of adjustment I'll re-locate the FAV to be inline with the manifold. I'm really excited to run this setup this season and to finally report back on pre-turbo injection.
Reply With Quote
  #513  
Old 07-03-2015, 06:01 PM
parmas parmas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: malta
Posts: 210
Default Re: Injecting prior to turbo comp' impellers

Nice HYDE16! Very tidy and clean.

That is lots of piping there.

What is the pump's flowrate and pressure rating?

What about the check valves, where are they?
Reply With Quote
  #514  
Old 07-03-2015, 10:24 PM
HYDE16 HYDE16 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Morris County, NJ
Posts: 47
Default Re: Injecting prior to turbo comp' impellers

Quote:
Originally Posted by parmas View Post
Nice HYDE16! Very tidy and clean.

That is lots of piping there.

What is the pump's flowrate and pressure rating?

What about the check valves, where are they?
Flow rate I need to recalculate based on the jet choices.
Pump pressure was tested at 185psi pre-FAV.
The check valves are in the jets, they are check valve jets (5 are and 1 is controlled by solenoid) with 15psi cracking pressure.
Reply With Quote
  #515  
Old 08-03-2015, 10:29 AM
parmas parmas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: malta
Posts: 210
Default Re: Injecting prior to turbo comp' impellers

Quote:
Originally Posted by HYDE16 View Post
Flow rate I need to recalculate based on the jet choices.
Pump pressure was tested at 185psi pre-FAV.
The check valves are in the jets, they are check valve jets (5 are and 1 is controlled by solenoid) with 15psi cracking pressure.
Presently I am running an AEM injection system of with a pump rating of 150psi with two nozzles post/pre 350cc x 2.

AEM advise to not run more than two nozzles on one single pump due to possible pressure loss. In your case you are using 6 nozzles - 4 Direct Port / 1 Post Turbo / 1 Pre-Turbo.

If it was me I would :

1. Try the system off the car
2. Connect all 6 nozzles using the same nozzle rating
3. Direct all nozzles each into a plastic can
4. Trigger the system by a test button or by pressurize the vacuum tubing with a hand pump
5. Leave it running until half bottles are full
6. Switch off the system and leave the mist around the can settle
7. Visually check differences between each container
8. If all the same, empty the liquid and retry for two times to check consistency of the system

With this method above you will make sure :

1. The system is working equally on all nozzles
2. Visually certain that all nozzles are seeing good mist
3. Visually certain that there are no leaks before tuning

To make this test I would recommend to use only water although that is your choice, just remember misting methanol into plastic containers is possibly dangerous and toxic to breath so keep yourself safe
Reply With Quote
  #516  
Old 08-03-2015, 03:21 PM
Flr Power Flr Power is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 62
Default Re: Injecting prior to turbo comp' impellers

Quote:
Originally Posted by parmas View Post
AEM advise to not run more than two nozzles on one single pump due to possible pressure loss.
The number of nozzles is irrelevant as long as you do not exceed the flow limit of the pump itself.
Reply With Quote
  #517  
Old 08-03-2015, 11:28 PM
HYDE16 HYDE16 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Morris County, NJ
Posts: 47
Default Re: Injecting prior to turbo comp' impellers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flr Power View Post
The number of nozzles is irrelevant as long as you do not exceed the flow limit of the pump itself.
I've seen other Aquamist systems with check valves and as high as 7 jets on 1 pump (pre-turbo, post turbo, pre throttle body, four direct port).

Rich what's your take on the following jets at 185psi pump pressure?
Four .6mm CVJs direct port
One .4mm CVJ post intercooler/pre-throttle body
One .3mm solenoid controlled jet pre-turbo
Reply With Quote
  #518  
Old 09-03-2015, 12:38 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default Re: Injecting prior to turbo comp' impellers

This set up is pretty popular on the Mazda and Focus platform. But not as large as your 4x 0.6mm. It allows good fuel supplement on those DI engine without any aftermarket large injectors available.

Certainly a five-jet set makes total sense, Good fuel distribution and ample charge air cooling.

The pump can be wound up to 225psi but will compromise the linearity of the system. As the flow increase, the pressure will drop much quicker than 160psi. It is the same as a tall water tank and and short tank with the same capacity, water level drops faster on a taller tank.

You can a adjust it to 185- 200psi to offset some manifold pressure. Beyond this is not acceptable.

Do you have a logs to post up here? I like to see the STFT.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #519  
Old 09-03-2015, 01:44 PM
HYDE16 HYDE16 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Morris County, NJ
Posts: 47
Default Re: Injecting prior to turbo comp' impellers

Thank you Richard, I remember we needed to raise the pump pressure to 185psi to meet the demand for this many jets. I have since decreased my 5th post intercooler jet from .6mm to .4mm this weekend since I've been burning out MAP sensors from too much direct contact. When I originally logged the .4mm to .6mm jet change in this location I didn't see any further decrease in intake air temps so at this point the larger jet could have added octane but no more cooling. Now I'm back to .4mm to slow the MAP sensor failure rate. Now, the addition of the 6th pre-turbo .3mm jet is solenoid controlled and will only be on here and there when I turn it on from the cabin. The 185 pump pressure should still be plenty for this configuratation of four .6mm jets, one .4mm jet and the occasional one .3mm jet but I may have to tweak the HFS-4 trimmers a tad based on the software demand. I don't want to have to max the pump out any further for reliability/longetivity.

I didn't run any logs yet as I am currently re-configuring my tank with an in-line master shut off valve (for when I have to quick disconnect and remove the tank from the trunk) and micron filter pre-pump. Today I plan on installing the tank and pump in the car and can finally turn the entire system back on again after the winter months. If all goes well I'll have prelim data logs this week.

What did you want to see specifically Rich? What is STFT?
Reply With Quote
  #520  
Old 09-03-2015, 04:03 PM
Flr Power Flr Power is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 62
Default Re: Injecting prior to turbo comp' impellers

STFT = Short Term Fuel Trims
Best to be around 5% (negative or positive)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.