waterinjection.info  

Go Back   waterinjection.info > Injection Applications (making it work) > Competition Specific

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 19-09-2014, 11:41 PM
stevieturbo stevieturbo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 80
Default Re: Using Aquamist for brake cooling system!?

What pump is it ?

Any of the typical ?100 or so water injection pumps would be more than adequate.

Dont forget to include a check valve so water doesnt syphon when not in use, as I presume water tank/pump will be higher than the actual outlet nozzles ?

I've had good luck with Carbon Lorraine pads, never used the Carbotech before though

Pagid always get good reviews too.

Last edited by stevieturbo; 19-09-2014 at 11:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 20-09-2014, 12:31 PM
markff markff is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: cheshunt
Posts: 7
Default Re: Using Aquamist for brake cooling system!?

The issue with the S2000 is that you cant fit bigger brakes under the OEM wheels and that the rear discs aren't vented. What tends to happen is that front brakes get heat soaked and then the bias goes more towards the rear and the rears overheat and this happens.



Im just hoping to get the temperature down by another 150c or so just enough to give the pads and easier life and to prevent the fade i occasionally experience. Hopefully my new ducting and spray will archive this.

Pump wise it was dirt cheap

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2011222180...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I know its cheap and reliability will be a unknown factor but it will hardly ever run apart from when i do trackdays maybe 6-7 times a year. I do need to measure the pumps actually output thou. Looking at the flow charts for the jets the 2x 6mm jets would use about 500ml a minute at 100psi. This would suggest the pump is supplying this sort of pressure as i emptied my 5 litres in 10 minutes but i know until i fit a gauge then i don't really know.

The pump might only run for 15 seconds every minute during braking and then switch off.

Can anyone recommend a decent pump? I looked at the AEM meth pump ?130 and high pressure but it has push in 1/4 nylon fittings which arent compatible with my aquamist fittings. Aquamist pump looks good but pricey
Internal bypass pump would be best because i could then fit a solenoid near the jets that would be operate by the relay. Im just abit wary of spending alot of money on something thats not necessary but obviously im open to suggestions.

Oh and check valves are sorted, i read up abit on here before hand and sourced some check valves to work with the 4mm pipe

Last edited by markff; 20-09-2014 at 12:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 20-09-2014, 01:08 PM
stevieturbo stevieturbo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 80
Default Re: Using Aquamist for brake cooling system!?

That shouldnt happen with good pads. Ive raced with discs glowing bright red and brakes still working and pads not falling apart.

What size wheels are they ? What size discs ?

That pump was cheaper than I was expecting lol. But on paper it sounds good. No reason why it shouldnt work.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 20-09-2014, 01:32 PM
markff markff is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: cheshunt
Posts: 7
Default Re: Using Aquamist for brake cooling system!?

Hi Steve,

That is the first failure i have had with the carbotechs and to be fair to them they were down to about half thickness and had done probably 5-6 trackdays. It had only happened to one pad out of the 4 on the rear. Im hoping that the enhanced cooling will increase pad life abit more and this whole set up is 50% cheaper than the pads are to buy.

Front discs are 300mm x25mm and the rears are 282mm x 12mm solid disc and OEM 17 inch wheels.

Car is probably weighing 1400kg+ with driver and full fuel load so its quite a heavy car to slow down on a trackday. I don't mind adding a few kilos of water . Alot of people moan about the standard brakes and fade. It seems that you can stop the fade with higher rated brake pads but the heat absolutely destroys the brake discs in no time. I'm just hoping to cut the temperatures down and stop the rears from having to deal with the braking when the fronts fade.

Pump is from what i can see is pretty much identical to a lower line shurflo pump. I will stick a pressure gauge on it and video some results, might stick a multimeter inline as well and measure current. I wouldn't want to use it on water injection into the engine but hopefully it will be alright for my application

Oh and unrelated to my diy system my brother runs aquamist water/meth injection on his mini cooper s and has recently removed the supercharger and had a turbo fitted. With aquamist injecting 100% pure meth he has over 350bhp at the wheels. The car is an animal and hes ironing out a few issues before using it on track next year. He has loved the system ever since it allowed him to get 250bhp out of his old supercharger set up.

Last edited by markff; 20-09-2014 at 01:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 20-09-2014, 02:12 PM
stevieturbo stevieturbo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 80
Default Re: Using Aquamist for brake cooling system!?

Surely you can fit plenty more under there ?

I've 330x32 floating discs under 16" wheels with 4 pots ( not Honda obviously )

Really, fitting uprated pads to standard discs is almost a waste of time, they will not be compatible with each other.
The further apart you go, the worse it will be for the discs.

Even a much higher quality disc/bell arrangement could make a huge difference to braking performance, used in conjunction with the right pads.

Aggressive pads can actually create far more heat in the disc than some milder pads, so actually make the problem worse even if you think it's the right way to go.

There is also the risk that spraying too much water onto a hot disc could also lead to premature failures. It will be trial and error though

For all things braking...speak to Bob at http://www.bgdevelopments.co.uk/contact-us

He will be able to build you something much much better than what you have.

Or a quick google says Wilwood offer stuff already ? Bob is mostly an AP guy, I'm sure the Wilwoods would be cheaper.

http://www.importtuner.com/reviews/p...ig_brake_kits/
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 20-09-2014, 03:18 PM
markff markff is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: cheshunt
Posts: 7
Default Re: Using Aquamist for brake cooling system!?

Thanks for the info.

The problem is that the cost of the brake kits is ?1500 plus and then on top of that you need to buy new wheels and possibly spacers and other parts for it to all work together.

OEM wheels don't provide another clearance for aftermarket brake solutions. Even the Spoon calipers don't fit the OEM wheels. Its annoying as you would of thought a car often used on trackdays would have more off the shelf solutions.

Two piece floating discs would be ideal but they only make in the US by a company called racing brake and people have given them mixed reviews so far.

I cant really afford to spend ?2000+ to eliminate the odd bit of brake fade during the few trackdays a year. Don't get me wrong i would love to but i havent got to the point where im going to spend that sort of money
At the moment i have cheap disc and pads for use over the winter and then i'm swapping to directional vaned discs which make quite a difference plus the ducting i'm in the process of fitting should also make a difference.

I will keep upto date with how i get on, the brackets im waiting for to mount the tank in the boot havent showed so wont be happening this weekend, can get the plumbing and wiring done thou.

I was hoping to inject the water into the ducting so that it mists into the air from the brake ducts rather than pours on to the discs and weakens them. Obviously there is a chance that this doesn't work all together but at least it means in the future i have parts to do a water injection installation if i supercharge my s2000
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 20-09-2014, 05:19 PM
stevieturbo stevieturbo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 80
Default Re: Using Aquamist for brake cooling system!?

Exactly what is the makeup of the OEM setup ? Any photos ?

I'd be amazed that you could go larger one way or another, even if it meant fitting adaptors and re-using the standard calipers or another sliding caliper.

It would be very easy to have some discs/bells made up and just stick with your existing calipers and diameter if you really could sort anything else. That would at least allow a proper disc to be used that will take the heat from racing pads, then use suitable pads.
That should only be a few hundred quid

Not sure where your existing pads fall, but some milder ones might actually help the heat situation when used with cheap discs.

As for water...maybe spray near the hub, so water gets expelled outwards through the vanes ?
No idea really where might be best for spraying.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 20-09-2014, 07:34 PM
markff markff is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: cheshunt
Posts: 7
Default Re: Using Aquamist for brake cooling system!?



The water spray has been used quite successfully on the Nissan GTR which also suffers brake heat issues.

http://www.willallracing.com.au/gtrbrakes.htm

They all rave about the system but obviously the brakes would be higher quality than

Photo on track



photo of where the brake duct ends up pointing directly at the vanes

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 20-09-2014, 08:28 PM
stevieturbo stevieturbo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 80
Default Re: Using Aquamist for brake cooling system!?

Looks like there is room to mount the caliper off a bracket off the rear side of the upright ? then offset the disc 15-20mm or so ?

That would then allow a much larger diameter disc with the existing calipers.

Duct looks pretty good, I guess it should be fairly easy to spray water there. Only concern might be if it sprays onto only 1 surface of the disc, it might cool unevenly ?

Although maybe there wont be so much water that it's a risk
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 21-09-2014, 08:25 PM
markff markff is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: cheshunt
Posts: 7
Default Re: Using Aquamist for brake cooling system!?

Thanks for the reply steve, your advice is appreciated.

I was hoping that with the directional vane pumping effect of the disc that the mist will be sucked into the vanes and thats distributed internally.

I got round to running the lines and the wiring today, had abit of a mare when the high pressure nylon line kinked passing it through the bulkhead, typical but i had enough left to finish it off.

Just need the brackets to turn up and i will be able to finish it off during the week. Will have to wait ages to test it properly thou as road testing wont be consistent or accurate.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.