Fiat Coupe 20vt Aquamist/ ECU timing dyno results :-)

[doctorfrag]

Hi,

I have a Fiat coupe 20vt (5 cylinder) with a n Aquamist 1s sytem, and Unichip piggy back ECU to take care of the fuelling and ignition timing.

After fitting the Unichip and Aquamist, I wondered whether I would be able to use the spare ouput from the DDS2 monitoring system to activate another Map in the unichip to see if I could get any more power out of my coupe.





The theory behind it, is that a flow sensor detects when the aquamist is running. I am using a 50/50 methanol/water mix, which as well as providing some extra cooling to the charge also increases the effective RON of the fuel, so extra ignition advance can be used.
The unichip does not have two maps, but it has a 'base' map, and also a 'full load' map. This full load map apprently is rarely used on turbo cars, but can be used to provide a dual map system.

At my last power run at PTS ,Luton, I got 288bhp, but I have since fitted a straight through induction pipe and Ramair filter, and changed my Pace FMIC for and EVO FMIC.

Paul at PTS, wanted to see if this dual map system was feasable, he had used in conjunction with nitrous systems but never before with water injection. Richard had not seen it used with water injection before, tuners seem to be wary about it.
He spent a lot of time with Richard from Aquamist whom was extremeley helpful , and also with Dastek, for the Unichip side of things.

they first ran a 'Base' map, this is really what everything works from ,changing the fueling and igniton versus air flow, checking Air/fuel mixture with a wide band sensor, running at 1.3 bar.
They then installed the DDS2, and after some playing about, got it working nicely with the unichip.
They then used the Unichip to develop the secondary 'full load' map.

First off, they ran the car with the secondary map and made 340bhp , but there was some pinking.
Although ,Paul said some tuners might leave it there, he did not want to hear any pinking, so reduced the base map down until they could hear no pinking, she was about 320bhp now.
However, Paul wanted a safe reliable car, and wondered what about warmer weather, lower grade fuel etc, and particulary as I'd like to go on the track/sprints etc, pulled back the timing another degree on the base map, and made 303bhp

I have used PTS many times, and referenced there rolling road against Power engineering and G-force, each time they were withing 3bhp of the results obtained from these. They also have given accurate results with standard cars I have put there before.

5 degrees additional timing dropping to 2 degrees at redline 17degC



Red Shows Standard turbo running 1 bar
Purple Shows Novitec(unmapped) hybrid Pace fmic etc 1.45bar

Yesterdays results 17deg C

Green Shows Unichip water injection, standard map EVO fmic induction pipe 1.3 bar
Black Shows Dual map activated 1.3 bar

the last two are of most relevance, and shows 5-10bhp difference between 3-5000rpm , and up to 15bhp difference 5000rpm-redline.

Torque curve



Here you can see far more dramatic results, the spool up time of the turbo has been improved, but the Unichip mapping and EVO IC have dramatically increased off boost torque dramatically improved with 20-30lb/ft increases 2-3000rpm, and up to60lb/ft between 3-3500rpm.

you can see the dual map ( black ) and the extra torque it runs throughout the rev range.

I'm very pleased, she feels very eager and responsive, and I'm not worried about giving it some welly

Although it would have been nice to have seen 320 or 340bhp!, this would have been done at the expense of reliablity, so although good for pub figures and a rolling road ,not so good when my car gives up in the summer.

My hybrid is at the end of its efficiency island at peak power, so is causing more back pressure and more heat, I suspect, without going for a 2.4 conversion, the way forward will be a roller bearing unit, although I suspect I would only gain another 5-10bhp from this .
A 3" downpipe will complement the roller unit, and well, maybe might get some C+B cams in there.....

plus I have'nt started playing with nitromethane yet :lol:

In the near future, we are going to try some different jet sizes, as obviously 340bhp is possible, and I want it!! :? :shock: :lol: , if we can suppress detonation effectively enough, but I would still want the ignition retarded enough for safety as has been done here, all of this was at 1.25-1.3 bar boost which is about max for good efficiency with this turbo

Joe

[Richard L]

Joe,

Thanks for posting the result to the forum, it is nice to see what is possible for only a few degree of timing advance. The area under the curve shows the total output energy increase opf the engine.

I think when you have your clutch fixed, armed with a bigger jet than 0.4mm, you will see a better gain. It is is pity that you can not optimise your a/f ratio for the timng being.

Again, thank for the posting.

[JohnA]

going up from 288bhp to 303 with bigger intercooler, water injection (50/50mix) and optimised re-mapping is not exactly dramatic now is it? 5% increase :!: :?:

While I understand fully the issues behind a maxxed out stock turbo etc, I would expect W.I. to create a solid fence around detonation, certainly up to the 340bhp level.
Are you sure water was actually injecting while the test was done? --- I'm not kidding, my feeling is that W.I. wasn't running at all :?

[doctorfrag]

Thanks John,

to clarify, the 288bhp was run with 50/50 water injection as well. the run was defiantely with WI

I don't have the curve for the 288bhp run, but it is like the 3rd curve down just a bit peakier.

This map was run at a conservative level, I was not aiming for 'pub' figures but something that could run like this day in day out and summertime as well.
The main reason for posting was to show the use of the DDS2 in running a bit more advance purely due to the water injection, and I ran about 15bhp throughout most of the rev range.


however , this is just a start, and we will use some bigger jet sizes to really get a handle on the detonation.
I don't know where you are from, but it is rare to have any tuners here in the UK happy to exploit and 'play with WI, so this is just the start

regards

Joe

[Richard L]

Joe forgot to mention the water jet size was 0.4mm - not that much water was being injected.

[JohnA]

Originally Posted by doctorfrag

Thanks John,

to clarify, the 288bhp was run with 50/50 water injection as well. the run was defiantely with WI

:lol:
OK, OK, I know it was a weird thing to ask, but I felt that I had to :lol:

however , this is just a start, and we will use some bigger jet sizes to really get a handle on the detonation.

I'm quite suprised to see detonation at this boost level with even a 0.4mm nozzle firing.

I don't know where you are from, but it is rare to have any tuners here in the UK happy to exploit and 'play with WI, so this is just the start

I'm also in the UK mate.
As you'll see from my site, my contempt for UK tuners is multi-angled, heh...

Are you sure that your A/F ratio is OK under boost? My first thought would be to check that.
It's not a bad idea to go for a wideband like the one I have on my fuelling page. I can't believe how I lived before without it :wink:

[doctorfrag]

Cheers John, I'm going to have browse round your website :lol:

Although my turbo is a hybrid (60 trim comp wheel), it really is out of its efficiency island

the run was at 1.25-1.3 bar midrange which drops to around 1 bar at redline.



this is as near a compressor map i can find, and shows the compressor going out of efficiency quickly at 1.25 bar. So I have not pushed boost any further than this, althouhg I could have run 1.4, but that would have just made the turbo even more inefficient.

We did manage a 340bhp run with some mild detonation, now we have to consider that tuning for the fiat coupe is in its infancy and there is only one other coupe running greater than this power, and that is heavily modified.
So We pulled back the timing to get 320bhp, and got no detonation, but then pulled it back another degree for safety, this was with a 0.4 mm jet.

So in reality we went from 288bhp to 320bhp with advanced timing, but took a conservative approach to 303bhp. I think if we had been able to eradicate detonation at 340bhp, then a 'comfortable' setting would have been 320bhp.

still, if money allowed a roller bearing unit, would cause less heat and back pressure so detonation would be less of an issue.

Still, I've got some cams going on next week, fast road, a few guys are runnign these with good results, so I will try a remap with bigger jet sizes, and thne maybe...just maybe get a roller bearing later in the year...... I quite fancy a GT28RS :lol:

joe

[PuntoRex]

Hi,

You definitely need more water! :twisted:

When I was using system 1S, my car was happy with 0.5mm jet in winter & up to 0.7 in summer. The engine is only 1.4l & flows much less air & fuel than yours.

And, you might try adding pre-compressor injection to improve the compression efficiency. It works very well on my car.

Be cautious though. Someone got a damaged compressor wheel. You may find the post here somewhere. I've not had time to inspect mine yet. Supposedly it's fine because the boost is still coming up strong....

[doctorfrag]

Cheers PuntoRex

Well, if you are running 0.4-0.7 then I most definately have to look at bigger jet sizes! :wink: , as it happens a friend sent a nice 0.9mm jet through the post he didnt need anymore .....

However the 1s system is not 3d mappable, so I hope I won't over do it lower down in the rev range.

will keep you informed

joe :smile:

[PuntoRex]

With the flow & pressure Aquamist pump can deliver, if jet bigger than 0.7 is needed, 2 or more smaller ones would be better.

Now I'm running 2* 0.5 pre-throttle & 1* 0.4 pre-compressor.
One of the pre-throttle is switched to the pre-compressor one when high boost & high rev. The system is working great, with a pretty high w/f ratio around 25%~28% :twisted: