Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

[shams1924]

ok. major read here. must read.

ok. here it is. after all this time. i am finally going to give it a road test.
so this is the main part. whats it like on the road? was it worth it? money well spent?
these are the questions that all may be asking......
with 45% to a 55% meth mixture. equals 50/50.
***update*** the following findings are from 3 days of testing in 5 test sessions.

1st session> went out nervously. in great anticipation. and after a mile or so. looking at the guage. the system was triggering just fine. i didnt notice anything at first. and i continued to set the gain and thres points whilst going over everything. step by step and a slow process. but i was in no rush. no power or gains noticed.

2nd session> so the system was set up almost perfectly. and on with the test. i started to gradually give it some juice. some weird and loud pops and bangs from the exhaust . nice. for all those that know. the jcw has got a habit of that. but it seemed like the gates of hell opened up a little more.
normally the pops and burbles would go on or about 1 sec after you lift off the throttle. but now it goes on for about 2 secs. double than before. its like theres extra gasoline or mixture that keeps burning for a little longer.

but i didnt really notice any power gains as such.
so i devised a little plan to see if this was all a placebo. so what i did was put the guage hidden away from my view. where i cannot see if it is on or off. i told my brother to either turn it off or on. with out me knowing. and i would have to guess by just driving the car.

so we did that. off i went. i noticed some wheel spin and the power was great and kept building. impressed .
i took the guage from him and told him that the water meth is working.
to my suprise. IT WAS OFF!
I SLOWED DOWN AND THOUGHT DEEPLY.
got todo that again. so we did it again.
this time i noticed less power slightly and a slower top end power.
so i told him to switch it to the other setting. and within seconds. i said yes. this last setting is definitely more power. he showed me that the last setting was water meth off. i was looking very puzzled and confused.
i told him todo it one last time. first go i felt the power. and he switched, and a noticable decrease in power and a hesitation on the second run. he showed me and the first one was off, and the second slower run was water meth on!!!!

we ended the day with me quite dissapointed but more intrigued. what was going on???

3rd session> the nextday i tested again.
now i noticed a loud drone with the meth on. at 4-5000rpm. like a back fire pop and drone. a bit like firing an automatic rifle magazine but with the drone sound. and also noticed more hesitaion on accelaraion. and then later on with decelaration.
then i turned it off. and everything went back to normal. what is going on???:sad:
kept trying it on. same thing as above. hesitation and ocassional drone.
turned it off and all fine.

4th session> armed with a diagnostics machine. i looked for live data feed of the engine parameters. and found the IAT. intake air temp.
so with a live road test and a handy graph on the odb2 machine. i went out with my brother. at rolling start. 5mph. IAT temp was at 15`c. with water meth off. so i floored it in 1st upto 6000rpm. 2nd 6000rpm and 3rd ot 6000rpm. wow. that was cool! anyway. the temp climbed pretty fast to 30-31`c
so i went round again. same spot. same road. this time with water meth on. 5mph rolling with the temp at 17`c. slightly higher than before.
ok. so i floored it in 1st upto 6000rpm. 2nd 6000rpm and 3rd ot 6000rpm.
temp went upto to 25`c. there was slight power loss and hesitaion whilst i got there.
but not suprisingly. the water meth was working. it was actually and quite clearly doing its job! cooling the IAT

wow! what a day. some good findings here. but what the f$%* is going on.
its like the car dont like the cooler air/water. the ecu is reading cooler but its not adjusting accordingly. well, it is adjusting, but negatively.
as far as my knowledge is concerned. im finished. need the expert advice of roger or richard. or any one else with the knowledge.

to be continued........

[Richard L]

It sounds like the engine is having problem firing the mixture. The 1 to 2 secomd run on is evident the mixture continued to burn down the exhaust pipe.

I am not knowledgeable with Minis but all Minis I have encountered uses 100% methanol. The next logical step is try running 100% methanol. Perhaps a smaller jet with 50:50.

Just to recap, what is the fuel injector size?

[zakshaker]

have you checked A/F ratio ?

[Richard L]

Water/methanol injection does not make power by itself. I am listing out three typical forced induction applications (sensible AFR):

1. Untuned:- Do not inject over 10-15% water/fuel ratio.
- It will help recovering power loss due to huigh ambient of poor fuel octane.

2. Mildly tuned with a few psi of boost increase:
- Inject 15%+ water/fuel ratio

3. Highly tuined with tens of psi boost increase:
- Inject 20%+ water/fuel ratio

When adding methanol to the mix, injection quantity has to be increased by greater 20-50% extra.

Over injection will result in power loss especially with boost increase or tuned. Once tuned, failsafe implementation is essential.


Shams1924...
I like to confirm howerton's comment, either run a small jet or go for 100% methanol ro avoid blowning out the sparks.

Assuming the mini uses 400cc/min fuel injectors. 15-20% of fuel is 240-320cc/min. At present, you are injecting over 450cc/min with a 0.8mm jet. The size is too big for an untuned engine. The reason for your power loss.

[shams1924]

Originally Posted by Richard L

Water/methanol injection does not make power by itself. I am listing out three typical forced induction applications (sensible AFR):

1. Untuned:- Do not inject over 10-15% water/fuel ratio.
- It will help recovering power loss due to huigh ambient of poor fuel octane.

2. Mildly tuned with a few psi of boost increase:
- Inject 15%+ water/fuel ratio

3. Highly tuined with tens of psi boost increase:
- Inject 20%+ water/fuel ratio

When adding methanol to the mix, injection quantity has to be increased by greater 20-50% extra.

Over injection will result in power loss especially with boost increase or tuned. Once tuned, failsafe implementation is essential.


Shams1924...
I like to confirm howerton's comment, either run a small jet or go for 100% methanol ro avoid blowning out the sparks.

Assuming the mini uses 400cc/min fuel injectors. 15-20% of fuel is 240-320cc/min. At present, you are injecting over 450cc/min with a 0.8mm jet. The size is too big for an untuned engine. The reason for your power loss.

thanks richard and howerton
ok. as 0.8mm was the smallest size. i took the next steps with that still installed.
i lowered the flow as follows.
i inserted the 0.5mm restrictor into the FAV. road tested. no flow. i turned up the SC on the guage. still no flow.
i done repeated the above steps again with the 0.7mm restrictor. again. no flow.
then i tried the 0.9mm restrictor. yet again. no flow recorded.
richard was spot on. together with the newer FAV and the new map on the hfs3 ecu. the flow was already reduced to match the mini.

so as suggested by the most people. i drained the tank and ran 100% meth.
results. car seems to like it much better than the 50/50 mix. still abit of after urn in the exhaust. but i dont feel any power loss. maybe a bit of power gain. initial testing looks to have gone some way to sort out this problem.
will test again tommorow. but i think i may need a smaller nozzle.
shall i send you my original FAV and the unused 0.9mm and 1.0mm nozzles back richard. so i can get a few smaller nozzles?

[softic]

Originally Posted by Richard L

I like to confirm howerton's comment, either run a small jet or go for 100% methanol ro avoid blowning out the sparks.

Assuming the mini uses 400cc/min fuel injectors. 15-20% of fuel is 240-320cc/min. At present, you are injecting over 450cc/min with a 0.8mm jet. The size is too big for an untuned engine. The reason for your power loss.

Richard,

Do I get it right that for 400cc/min injectors and 1.4 Bar boost I will need 0.5mm nozzle? (I have the same engine in my car)
Or placing 0.5mm restrictor is okay?

Thanks!

[Richard L]

It is strange that you get no flow at all on all the restrictors. I will send you a smaller jet to try. Please send the FAV assembly and bigger nozzle back to me and I change them.

Richard

[shams1924]

ok done that richard

update. the car seems to be liking 100% meth. i think its burning better.
not sure sure if its increased power.
also. when ive got the meth off. it seems the car is running better now. like restored power has come back abit. maybe this could be down to the cleaning the water/meth may do to the internals. (if someone can elaborate on that from experience.)

its not 100% there yet. but its on the right tracks now.
i may try 75 meth 25 water later on. and tweeking of the flow gains and THRES.
but in the mean time. richard has sent me 2 smaller jets. 0.6mm and 0.7mm.
ill try them soon and see how it goes.
after this weekend. expect no updates for 6 weeks as im away on a long vacation.

[softic]

shams1924, how is your project now? any updates?
I am going to do similar installation on the same engine (EP6DTS) just couple weeks later.

[shams1924]

Originally Posted by softic

shams1924, how is your project now? any updates?
I am going to do similar installation on the same engine (EP6DTS) just couple weeks later.

very sorry. just seen the thread now afetr a while. install is finished.
i didnt use the full functions of the hfs3 and tune my car to run on meth 24/7
after long considerations, i lef it as it is, as and added protection, and i little speed booster when needed(seems to add 5bhp, i know thats only a bit)
on the jcw, it adds extra pops and bangs on the throttle lift off :-)

Originally Posted by softic

Well, I have tried installation of all three restrictors and there was NO flow with ANY of them (((
And this was regardless of FAV - even with FAV detached there was 0.001% of water coming out of restrictor.

Richard, is it anyhow possible to determine why this happens? I remember than shams1924 also have had such issue and could not resolve it at all...
If still restrictors do not help - is there any was to change my big injectors (1.0 and 0.9 mm) to the smaller size (0.5 or 0.6 mm)?

i seems that your issue may be related to the system not activating, has it been setup properly. you should be fine with 0.6/0.7mm nozzles.

oh yeah, i dont think the engine will like lower than 25 distilled water and 75 meth mixture.
most guys in ussa run 00% met.
20 water and 80 meth should be good.
if you add more than 30% water, the car doesnt like it. seems to let of aa loud pop(exhaust)every so often and hesitates abit.