waterinjection.info  

Go Back   waterinjection.info > Aquamist specific system Q and A and new products > Aquamist HFS-3 forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 18-08-2010, 09:43 AM
Caspergti Caspergti is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

Ok, so the grey harness red wire, does it power a latching relay in the controller? As I know I don't have power there all the time. I assume it sees the priming pulse to latch the relay in to provide power to the controller through the molex connector?

Ive tested the positive connection at the injector and I don't have a constant 12v at pre crank position, as I would expect, that's why I ask if it's a latching relay.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 18-08-2010, 01:02 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

The red wire of the grey harness powers one side of the relay coil, the other side of the coil is grounded. The relay is not a latching type.

It is very unusual not to have 12V present at the injector(+) at the pre-crank position.
Some cars switchje doff the (+) rail of the fuel injector after 10 seconds or so if no cranking has taken place during this period.

You might have one of those cars.

I am not comfortable for you to power-up the relay other than the fuel injector positive. It can cause false reading on the IDC signal.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 18-08-2010, 06:19 PM
Caspergti Caspergti is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

The car runs off an emerald K3 standalone Ecu not the vw item. It uses a common ground on the -ve and a pulsed 12v signal to energise the injector coil. I'm not sure if it has 12v at pre crank for a small ammount of time though, i don't think it does though.

When it turns up tomorrow I'll check it all out again, this is very strange. So that red wire has two functions? To see 12v at the injector and the to sense the pulse to work out the duty??

Thinking about it, I won't have 12v at the injector at pre crank as the fuel pump primes when the door opens, if 12v was applied then it would inject fuel.

How can we get round this??

Last edited by Caspergti; 18-08-2010 at 06:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 19-08-2010, 07:09 AM
Caspergti Caspergti is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

Ok, so I just checked it out this morning, plugged at all back in for system initialisation, grey harness, red to injector +ve and green to injector -ve which seems to be always earthed. Turn the key to position 1 of 2 (pre crank) and on getting nothing at all, I'm assuming that's because I don't have any power at injector +ve at pre crank as expected.

Bit stuck as to what to do now.... I assume the way the the hfs-3 is set up is that it uses the -ve to sense the duty, as the +ve is constantly powered?

Richard, I'll give you a call later on today, it's better to talk about this over tue phone I think.

Last edited by Caspergti; 19-08-2010 at 07:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 19-08-2010, 09:15 PM
Caspergti Caspergti is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

Looked in to it more this evening.

The controller is ok now, i have replaced the molex connector you supplied me, and will change the FAV tomorrow, and post it back, must have been something connector/loom related, all i know now that its now working. Thankyou for your efforts Richard.

Now the wiring, I have looked thoroughly at the wiring and tried out various different things. Firstly the emerald ecu is an earth switched ecu. But on the injector loom there is no constant 12v at pre crank, only a 2 second pulse. So the aquamist system comes on and then goes off.

If i wire the red wire from the grey harness to the ignition coil pack positive, it comes on as it should at pre crank. the only thing is how i can connect the -ve injector wire up, as the injectors seem to be grounded, the aquamist will just think its at 100% duty all the time.

The problem there seems to be is, the ecu is supposedly an earth switched circuit, but one side of the injector loom is earthed, and the other is connected to the ecu, so i cant see how the hell that works i dont know, but the cars been running like that for thousands of miles......

Any help would be appreciated!

Last edited by Caspergti; 19-08-2010 at 09:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 19-08-2010, 09:17 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caspergti View Post
Ok, so I just checked it out this morning, plugged at all back in for system initialisation, grey harness, red to injector +ve and green to injector -ve which seems to be always earthed. Turn the key to position 1 of 2 (pre crank) and on getting nothing at all, I'm assuming that's because I don't have any power at injector +ve at pre crank as expected.

Bit stuck as to what to do now.... I assume the way the the hfs-3 is set up is that it uses the -ve to sense the duty, as the +ve is constantly powered?

Richard, I'll give you a call later on today, it's better to talk about this over tue phone I think.
I would like to deal with your earlier problem of a bad soldering joint of the unit, you have to push the molex connector at 45 degrees to make the system work. I rather not moving on until this problem is resolved.

I have checked your controller, examine your claim of bad soldering work on the molex connector. I have found none of your claims were creditable and was disappointed at your assessment of our product being high priced and without the quality of workmanship to match it.

Please confirm that the time we spent on "same day return" and an hour of my time is totally without justification? Some acknowledgment of our effort would be nice.

Yes I do have a solution for you if what you have described is true. I would be grateful if you can confirm with Emerald that the fuel injectors are all grounded and pulsed towards the +12V rail.

I await your reply on the Emerald...
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 19-08-2010, 09:33 PM
Caspergti Caspergti is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
I would like to deal with your earlier problem of a bad soldering joint of the unit, you have to push the molex connector at 45 degrees to make the system work. I rather not moving on until this problem is resolved.

I have checked your controller, examine your claim of bad soldering work on the molex connector. I have found none of your claims were creditable and was disappointed at your assessment of our product being high priced and without the quality of workmanship to match it.

Please confirm that the time we spent on "same day return" and an hour of my time is totally without justification? Some acknowledgment of our effort would be nice.

Yes I do have a solution for you if what you have described is true. I would be grateful if you can confirm with Emerald that the fuel injectors are all grounded and pulsed towards the +12V rail.

I await your reply on the Emerald...
I think we must have been posting at the same time, I tried to call you today to talk to you in person, but you weren't in at the time. Again thankyou for checking the controller and supplying the loom, it has fixed the issue.

Please read the last post i made, I have spoken with emerald and they have confirmed that the ecu is an earth switching item. but id like to know the idea of how to get around the 12v switching, so i can try it to see if it works.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 20-08-2010, 09:14 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caspergti View Post
Looked in to it more this evening.
.
.
.

The problem there seems to be is, the ecu is supposedly an earth switched circuit, but one side of the injector loom is earthed, and the other is connected to the ecu, so i cant see how the hell that works i dont know, but the cars been running like that for thousands of miles......

Any help would be appreciated!

Lets move on...

According to your account of the ECU, it doesn't quite make sense.

Logically speaking, if the injectors are earth switched, the other side of the injector must be connected to a +12V source otherwise it will never energise when it is switched to earth.

Are you sure the highlighted text above is true? I cannot believe you have run thousands fo miles on that setup.

I will try to download the emerald user manual and take a look. Tell me against what the ECU model number is.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 20-08-2010, 09:41 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

Just downloaded the Emerald user manual, page 55 - wiring diagram. Is this the same ECU in your car?

[center][center]
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 20-08-2010, 10:12 AM
Caspergti Caspergti is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
Lets move on...

According to your account of the ECU, it doesn't quite make sense.

Logically speaking, if the injectors are earth switched, the other side of the injector must be connected to a +12V source otherwise it will never energise when it is switched to earth.

Are you sure the highlighted text above is true? I cannot believe you have run thousands fo miles on that setup.

I will try to download the emerald user manual and take a look. Tell me against what the ECU model number is.
This is what is confusing me, i also cant understand how it logically works.

I am finding out exactly how the car is wired up at the moment, i did it with a friend of mine who is very knowldgable with the emerald unit, we did it about 2 years ago now, from what i can remember he wired up the injection circut. The ECU should be wired up as the picture you have posted, It is a K3 ecu unit.

This is what is confusing me, If i do a continuity check between one pin on the injector plug to the block of the car (obviously earthed) then i get continuity, which indicates that that wire is earthed yes? the other side if the injector is connected to the ecu, continuity to one pin on the ecu connector.

The only way i can understand whats going on is that at the off position and pre crank, the injector circuit is earthed mabe for protection, and then upon turning the key to cranking the engine it switches to 12v, This is something im going to confirm tonight.

I will let you know what i find out
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.