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Old 10-08-2010, 07:49 PM
Caspergti Caspergti is offline
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Default HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

Hi guys,

Ive been on this forum a while, and was part of the group buy of the HFS-3 system which i have basically just finished installing.

My engine is a Eaton supercharged 1600cc 4cyl engine, forged internals, Gapless rings, SS Valves etc etc, It runs with an FMIC, Running about 12-14psi of boost and currently has 206bhp at the wheels. It runs emerald management with EGT sensor and techedge wideband control, no knock sensing apart from egt. I bought the HFS-3 system to assist in lower intake temps and ignition timing advances.... But with a small amount of knowledge about the subject, this forum has helped me a great deal with understanding it. Just hoping a few of you could share your views and give me any help, as i will need it!

I have the system set up, but haven't decided on where to put the jet in yet, from what i see people try all sorts of things. I wanted to run the car with a 50/50 mix with running the jet in to the flow after the I/C but further enough away from the air temp sensor so the mix has enough space to fully mix and give a good reading for the sensor... Am i right in thinking this?

It the dawned on me that i do see fairly high intake temps sometimes, after 20mins or so on the rollers, i can see intake temps of about 40-45 degC on hard boost, this is mainly down to the proximity of the charger to the exhaust manifold, its well protected and has a water jacket on the charger, but it still gets warm, Id sat it operates at about 70-80 degC but im unsure on exact air exhaust temps.

Now would it be a good idea to inject a small amount of fluid in before the charger intake?? will the methanol affect the aluminium case of the charger and the aluminium I/C? Bearing in mind the injector sizes are only 380cc, so im looking at a fairly small jet anyway, 0.4-0.5mm to be precise. Would i actually see any benefit from the pre charger injection? and what size jet would be right for it as ive read that smaller jets clog up easier? and if i use this, will i be injecting too much? I will be using R/O water (Reverse Osmosis) and race methanol.

I have set it up so the failsafe and the switch on the dash swaps my maps over on the ECU, going between a W/I map and a normal map at the flick of the button, I will be using EGT to monitor the engine, and have wideband control to monitor the rest. It will be all based on my IDC, i dont plan on using any map sensor input, although i could do, is this advisable??

If anyone could give me an idea in how there eyes they would set it up, or have any information or want to give me any help then it would be greatly appreciated. I will be keeping this thread as updated as i can, its never been done before on this engine, in fact everything ive done to this car has never ever been attempted! So im well any truly in the dark on this one!!

If anyone is interested in the build thread of the car to see the work gone in to it already then please visit here: http://forums.clublupo.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=31082

I understand there's about 1320 posts, it gets interesting about 5 pages in to the thread, so if you get bored, i understand!

Thanks,

John

Last edited by Caspergti; 10-08-2010 at 08:02 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-08-2010, 05:01 AM
Howerton Engineering
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Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

Casper,

I have a 1600cc M45 engine running 18psi and very hot temps out of the SC. I spray right after the IC (100% meth) to give the longest mixing and cooling time. I have tried spraying before the SC, I really didn't see much change, as the mass of the case is so much that in normal driving it didn't seem to help. Maybe in a endurance race with a sustained spray you could lower the temps out of the SC.

Do try to put the jet as far away from the manifold as possible, right after the IC if possible. Water doesn't turn as easy as methanol, so the more time to evaporate and mix the better.

I've used this example before, on a 100F day my SC outlet temps at redline is 350F, and the temp in the manifold in the midrange is 60F climbing to 110F at redline.
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:21 AM
Caspergti Caspergti is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

Wow, 18psi, how did you achieve that??!!

Would you sugest I run more meth in the mix then? Say 60/40? I can get the jet to the exit of the I/c no problems so I will do that if you say it makes no difference to the charger if you inject there.

Am I right in my jet size calculation? 380cc injectors which will probably run to about 80% duty, so a 0.4 or 0.5mm jet after the I/c is the right size? 60/40 mix using about 20% mix to fuel.

Will I have enough resolution on the gauge or adjustment on it to get full gauge deflection due to my lower flow rates??

John
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Old 11-08-2010, 03:04 PM
Howerton Engineering
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Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

Put a small enough pulley on to spin it to 19,000rpm and you can hit 18psi. But it takes a lot of meth to combat the heat.

I'd start with a .5mm jet. You will see some IAT cooling but some will be combustion cooling due to the water. If you want max IAT cooling the more meth you use the better.

I think the gauge should work fine, if you have a big issue once running it maybe possible to re-flash your board for better resolution for a single small jet.
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  #5  
Old 11-08-2010, 09:48 PM
Caspergti Caspergti is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

I see, i wont be running the W/I all the time, for motorway cruising and pottering about i will be on a different map without W/I.

I spin my charger to 16500 at the moment, dont really want to go much further than that.

I will keep this updated as i move along with the tuning of the system, It shoudl be ready to test by the weekend i hope.

John
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  #6  
Old 15-08-2010, 11:33 AM
Caspergti Caspergti is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

Well im pretty angry.
Go to start the system for the first time and power up...... Nothing.

Check all my connections, all fine, and correct as the manual states.

Wobble the power receptacle to the controller, and i get buzzing and an array of lights. Had a look at the back of the controller and the solder joints connecting the receptacle to the controller board are all a different colour to the rest, con checked them out and 3/4 of them are cold joints.

Surely if you pay nearly $800 for a full system they would test this first? Im now stuck with half an injection system, and a controller that is about as much use as a chocolate teapot!

Who do i speak with to get a replacement?

John
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  #7  
Old 15-08-2010, 11:59 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

I am not sure your comment about the receptacle/board are of different colours, please clarify. You can return the controller back to us so that we can examine the "cold joints" you memtioned. This is the first time I hear about this.

Who charged to $800 for the system? The system was $650 at group buy without the tank.

Send it back to:

ERL Ltd
Repairs department
Iroko House
Bolney Avenue
Peacehaven
East Sussex
BN10 8HF
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Old 15-08-2010, 12:03 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

If you want use the system to run at a low flowrate, the controller has to be reflashed otherwise the resolution will suffer by upping the gain from "SC" trimmer on the gauge.
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  #9  
Old 15-08-2010, 12:39 PM
Caspergti Caspergti is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

Inducing tanks and taxes... sorry if i sounded a bit abrupt earlier.

The connection i am talking about is the main power connection to the board, 4 Pin plug, black, white, purple and red wires. If i hold the connector at angles whilst the connection is made, i get a variety of different lights on the gauge and on the board, plus a buzzing noise from one of the relays, i take it one connection is not being made correctly on to the board. I will email you a picture of the board.

I searched the forum before posting to see if anyone else had had the issue, so i was a bit miffed to find out that mine seems to be the only one?

Richard, ill send you an email, but i havent had a reply to one i sent about a week ago so im wondering if i have the right address?

John
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  #10  
Old 15-08-2010, 01:43 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 Eaton Charged 1600

The problem with soldering is the absence of lead (by law). lead-less solder is not very good but improving all the time. The main problem is the ability to flow into the hole of the circuit board properly.

Send the board back and I will reflow the joints and reflash it for a lower flow. Address is no my last post.
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