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  #21  
Old 11-11-2011, 08:08 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 not spraying

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Originally Posted by Arthurwiljami View Post
OK, so ECU cable on good. I?ve checked all the wire colours and they all have the same orientation red, yellow, blue, black. I do have multimeter.

Is it a must for the thin red wire to be connected to injector (+) or does it matter if the connetion just have 12V in pre-crank position (and when the car is running of course). If I?ve understood correctly both red wires need to get 12V in pre-crank position but where ever I put the thin red the pump activates when the gauge lights up. I don?t understand what triggers the system to spray when the car is not even running. Is it possible that the injector is "short to ground" for some reason in pre-crank position.

Well either way the system will not spray when the car is running.

The thin red wire should really be connected to the fuel injector (+) so that when the ECU switches off the fuel injector (+), the HFS3 might think the fuel injector is at 100% dc because i thas lost the (+) supply.

From past experience, this does not happen on the Audi ECU but for some un-explained reason, the HFS-3's green wire (grey harness) is seeing a ground signal from the fuel injector (-) terminal.

We can check this out if you can use your voltmeter to check the voltage at test pin8, relative to ground (bottom left hand corner):

Voltage at TP8
key off .............. no voltage
key #1 (accessory position) ........ no voltage
key #2 (pre-crank/run position) ....... 12V
key #3 (starter) ............. 12V

Please re-test key position #2 after ~10 seconds (before cranking) just to confirm the ECU does not remove the injector 12V. If it does, the 12V will disappear at TP8. This will cause the system and pump to trigger in error.
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  #22  
Old 13-11-2011, 10:27 PM
Arthurwiljami Arthurwiljami is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 not spraying

Voltage at 8 pin:

- key off....................no voltage
- key #2 (pre-crank)... 3,5V
- key #3 (starter)....... to be tested (don?t have access to the car at the moment)
- car running...............12V

Don?t know is this relevant but when I turn the ignition to pre-crank the yellow water level light lights up but shuts down right after. After that the gauge has no power until I start the car. The yellow light lights up immediately and 15s later everything else lights up in the gauge as they should.

I just talked with my tuner and I was told that US 03-> audi 2,7tt has this same feature that the fuel injector (+) see 12V only when the car is running.

If that is the case how should I wire the harness to get the system work properly? I?ll ask from my tuner how they have wired cars like this.

If I connect the thin red wire to somewhere else where it gets 12V in pre-crank and the system start to spray is the possible cause for this that the injector (-) is grounded and the system "thinks" the injector duty is 100%? If I?ve understood correctly the injector is controlled to spray by grounding it (don?t know if I explained that correctly?).
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  #23  
Old 14-11-2011, 10:13 AM
Arthurwiljami Arthurwiljami is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 not spraying

Forgot to mention that the coil resistance on 12 ohm.
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  #24  
Old 15-11-2011, 12:01 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 not spraying

The injectors are the conventional type. Thanks for the update.

So far, from your information and tests. It appears the ECU momentarily switched in the injector(+) and fuel pump at the pre-cranked key position and shut off afew seconds later. This sequence pressurises the fuel line.

Once cranked and running, the ECU powers up the fuel injector (+) and fuel pump.

I guess the only way we tackle this set up without mistakenly triggering the HFS3 is by putting the thin red on the injector (+), temporarily enduring the system will not switch on until the enigne is up and running.
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  #25  
Old 24-11-2011, 06:20 PM
Arthurwiljami Arthurwiljami is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 not spraying

Updates,

Finally got the car back on the road and the first snow melted away. All the wirings was correctly wired and the problem was the IDC didn?t exceed 44%. I turned the threshold from clock 12 to clock 9 and the system started spraying. I?m seeing 2-3 bars in the gauge so it still needs some adjustment. My tune is at the early stage but I wouldn?t have thought that IDC was under 44% since I?running ~24psi with 72lbs. Also the injector (+) confused a lot because it didn?t have the 12V as most car do so for future reference to other S4 2.7 owner this is how these cars differs from others.

Thanks to Richard and Howerton Engineering for great customer support.
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  #26  
Old 24-11-2011, 08:55 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 not spraying

The HFS3 has a pre-amplifier for the IDC: x1(default), x1.5 and x2.5.

The modification can be done on the underside of the circuit board. Scratch out the x1 link and solder link the x1.5. This will scale your 44% to 66%. Alterntaively, you can try x2.5, giving you a final IDC value of 110%.
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  #27  
Old 25-01-2012, 12:59 PM
Arthurwiljami Arthurwiljami is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 not spraying ::mystery solved::

Bringing this to back because I have still/again a flow issue. After I adjusted the threshold to start flow at lower IDC I saw 7-8 bars in in gauge. Only a short after I was seen only 5-6 bars and the yellow "water level" -light lights up when the system start spraying which indicate the fail safe been activated.?

Water level is not low so what could cause the failsafe to activate? Flow sensor, faulty FAV? What things shoud I check first?

Another question about WL and WH potentiometer: No matter where I turn these I see the red "B" lighing up when starting to get boost and on boost. When the system is adjusted correctly should the "B" light up?
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  #28  
Old 25-01-2012, 01:23 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 not spraying ::mystery solved::

If the yellow led comes on whilst spraying (or not spray), it will be a failsafe activation. Nothing to do with the tank level sensor.

"B" led only comes on after the system is triggered. It will turn off if the flow goes outside the flow window. You can "assume all is well" when the "B" led is lit through out the spraying period.

If you see 7-8 bar at the gauge, it will trigger the failslafe because it has exceeded the upper limit of the flow window. (WL). Another reason for the excessive indication on the gauge is probably due to part of the hose is empty between the valve and jet.

During the first 1/10th second or so seconds of spray, air inside the hose will be displaced by the water until the water reaches the jet. Once this is purging sequence is completed, the gauge reading will be lower (5-6 bars instead of 7-8 bars).

You can avoid the over-shoot of WH (upper limit) and avoid triggering the failsafe (yellow led) by the one of following action:

1. Increase the failsafe delay on the controller (clockwise)
2. Shorten the hose length between the FAV and jet
3. Create a downward hose loop between the FAV and jst so that gravity will help keeping the water inside the hose.
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  #29  
Old 25-01-2012, 01:58 PM
Arthurwiljami Arthurwiljami is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 not spraying ::mystery solved::

What I ment to say about flow bars I don't see 7-8 bars at any stage. I thought the flow was reduced so it only show 5-6 bars for some reason and therefore failsafe is activated?? But I'll check this out when the weather allow to me to test this on the road (snowy roads).

If you see 7-8 bar at the gauge, it will trigger the failslafe because it has exceeded the upper limit of the flow window. (WL).


So do I need to adjust SC to counterclockwise a little so it doesn't go up to 7-8 bars?

1. Increase the failsafe delay on the controller (clockwise)
2. Shorten the hose length between the FAV and jet
3. Create a downward hose loop between the FAV and jst so that gravity will help keeping the water inside the hose.


1. I'll increase delay if needed.
2. hoses are almost as short as they can be.
3. Will try to make the loop. The jets are now lower than FAV.
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  #30  
Old 25-01-2012, 10:16 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: HFS-3 not spraying ::mystery solved::

If the 7-8 bar is momentry, then extending the failsafe delay is more appropriate

Provided you have already calibrated the WL and WH. What is the position of WL and WH? (face of a clock).

Just a matter of interest, have to set the WL and WH according to the procedure in the user user manual?
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