waterinjection.info  

Go Back   waterinjection.info > Injection Applications (making it work) > Diesel

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28-04-2012, 04:51 PM
Dust Dust is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Frankfort, Kentucky
Posts: 225
Default Why don't we see more PWMV kits on diesels

Most forums are full of Pps kits. Is there a reason for the lack of PWMV kits on diesels, big or small?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 29-04-2012, 12:49 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,796
Default Re: Why don't we see more PWMV kits on diesels

Probably for reasons listed below:

1. We did not market many PWM systems to the diesels because older diesels have little electronic controller for us to read the load signal from.
2. We have not produced a boost based, PWM system until the HFS-4.
3. We are unable to compete with the PPS system marketed around 200-300 dollars.
4. Unlike Gasoline engine, Diesel engine is basically a excess-air system, if you want power, just add fuel. Fuel can be diesel, cooking oil or any alcohol.
5. We will be looking into this market this year, it will be hard work to change the current trend of thoughts.

It amazed me that people one particular forum rarely venture out of their comfort zone, such as trying out newer technologies, or simply visit other forums. Do you think the PWM system will benefit the diesel community?
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 29-04-2012, 03:06 PM
Dust Dust is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Frankfort, Kentucky
Posts: 225
Default Re: Why don't we see more PWMV kits on diesels

Quote:
3. We are unable to compete with the PPS system marketed around 200-300 dollars.
Some are spending up to $800 for the stage 3 blah blah blah stuff.

Quote:
It amazed me that people one particular forum rarely venture out of their comfort zone, such as trying out newer technologies, or simply visit other forums. Do you think the PWM system will benefit the diesel community?
Sounds like the turbo buick crowd. The only kit that works on TBs is the Alkycontrol kit. Nothing else works. Which forum are you referring to?


I think it will benefit, but I think that without some incentive, it will be a tough sale. The main focus of diesel owners, big diesel owners, is HP, MPG, and flow. The big power diesels go with belt driven pumps putting out 600 psi to overcome boost pressure. With the stage 3 setups that include two nozzles that trigger separately, I don’t see the single stage setup of the HFS-4 having a whizbang factor. I think that an HP gain compared to a PPS system, and an MPG gain would be necessary. I don’t know if efficiency would matter much, as they run big tanks anyway. For the smaller stuff, not so much in the US, I would think a DI PWI-1 would be perfect. Don’t need that much flow for a 120hp diesel, and mounting the small pump would be much simpler than a big aquatic.

Last edited by Dust; 29-04-2012 at 03:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 30-04-2012, 09:12 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,796
Default Re: Why don't we see more PWMV kits on diesels

Forums such as the topics on cummins, GM, banks and diesel trucks.

Gasoline engine requires good control of AFR to maintain consistant power. Diesel has plenty of air, power output is directly proportional to amount fuel dump into the engine. For that reason, injecting the precise amount of water/methanol is not as important, privided the EGT is under control.

Manifold pressure in excess of 100psi requires (as mentioned by you) requires a machanically driven pump. Those application is only a small proportion to the norm. I think the market we willbe aiming for is the modern DI diesel where the PWM system will excel and gives good consistant results. I totally agree with your marklet analysis.

The DI tecnology has brought SI (spark ignition) and diesel enigne closer. Most SI/DI engines use the excess-air method for cruising and mid throttle by having the throttle plate fully open and use lamdba sensors to target afr.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 30-04-2012, 09:47 AM
Dust Dust is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Frankfort, Kentucky
Posts: 225
Default Re: Why don't we see more PWMV kits on diesels

I think that a second stage activation would be a good idea, although the gain might help in that area. The area under curve if you could increase power better than a PPS, and show lower flow might be a seller, or just easier to tune. I know that you mentioned problems with using map based injection while tuning rpm maps on EVOM or nabisco. It will take a bit to get oil burners to buy something more expensive than what they have, but MPG and dyno maps will probably sell it. Ability to start injection earlier to reduce fuel usage without flooding would be nice. Sending you a pm about something else.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 30-04-2012, 11:06 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,796
Default Re: Why don't we see more PWMV kits on diesels

The HFS-4 is basically a 2-stage controller.

Most OE diesel engines uses a small turbo for quicker spool-up reason. The HFS-4 will injection based on Boost first and followed by IDC. The addition input of rail pressure will further aid the water/fuel ratio accurancy.

I would leave the oil burners alone. I agree the PWM system is more suited for day to day modern diesels.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-05-2012, 03:35 PM
Dust Dust is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Frankfort, Kentucky
Posts: 225
Default Re: Why don't we see more PWMV kits on diesels

How would the failsafe be handled? I don't know how to trigger a failsafe for a diesel. The more boost at the same fueling the less EGTs. What would the failsafe trigger? Boost cut? Do modern diesels have a map switch?

On another note, I think that dynamic range would be a good selling point for bigger diesels.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-05-2012, 07:43 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,796
Default Re: Why don't we see more PWMV kits on diesels

I have not worked on the diesel failsafe yet, It willnot be easy to interrupt a mechanical fuel enrichment component. The modern diecesl may be easier, just reduce the throttle angle sensor signal or foll the rail pressure sensor.

If we were to introduce a diesel system, it will be for the Di-common rail trype diesels.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-05-2012, 12:44 PM
Dust Dust is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Frankfort, Kentucky
Posts: 225
Default Re: Why don't we see more PWMV kits on diesels

How about an HFS2v2? All the features, minus the failsafe. Post some flow differences, that might help.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:42 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,796
Default Re: Why don't we see more PWMV kits on diesels

The HFS2-v2 is well priced and will perform all the functions of the H3 and H4.

I am not sure which market to target, performance, enconomy or tolling. Do you know which is the most common?
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.