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  #1  
Old 28-03-2006, 01:38 AM
Solar_Subaru Solar_Subaru is offline
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Default Hello All and windshield squirter diesel injection

Hey Folks! Nice to meet you all, this is my first time on this forum. I hope to have many conversations with everone, as I know there is trmendous potential in Water/Meth injection.
My very first problem I could you some guidance on is:
I have just poked a hole in my turbo inlet tube on my IDI 92 jetta ecodiesel. I stuck a handmade jet into the hole and plumbed it into the washer pump.
I had previously messed with the injection pump (all mechanical) and have been running about 15 psi boost under full load. When I hit the washer switch, it adds 3-4 psi of boost, and a more than noticeable kick. Of course I was very excited about this easy performance mod.
Then I heard the noise...Sounds like the engine is detonating? I didn't even know this was possible in a diesel? I have also been told on the Megasquirt Fuel Injection Forum that I will probably chew up the compressor blade with the water/meth (windshield washer fluid) spraying right into the turbo like that. Some have suggested that the noise is cominf from the turbo, I really think it is piston slap noise. Once when I turned the injection pump way up, and the car was pulling hard, I thought I had heard this noise. but a clutch failure and the fact that the engine wouldn't idle back down made me turn it back. but for a moment I had almost 30 psi on this little 1.6.

Anyhow, Is the water into the compressor going to chew up the wheel? and is it possible I am hearing detonation? I'll tell you, the fuel economy and extra power is very addictive.

Tony
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69 Subaru Sambar electric conversion
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88 Megasquirt Toyota Pickup
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  #2  
Old 29-03-2006, 03:31 PM
JohnA JohnA is offline
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There are a few threads around this forum, do a search for 'precompressor injection'

In a nutshell you want to inject a very fine mist of water/methanol.
Your windscreen pump hasn't got anywhere near enough pressure to produce fine atomisation like that, so you end up throwing water droplets to the compressor blades. That may damage it.
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  #3  
Old 29-03-2006, 06:48 PM
Obscene_CNN Obscene_CNN is offline
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Injecting water before the turbo will erode your compressor wheel. To spool up quickly they make the wheels out of light weight aluminium alloys. These alloys are not very durable. I can't imagine the small bits of the wheel are very good for your engine either. Relocate the injection point to a spot right after the turbo.

The pinging or knock sound could be due to injector pump timing. Timing chain stretch which can throw the injector pump timing out of whack. Increased load on the engine might aggravate this to some extent.
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Old 30-03-2006, 02:46 AM
Solar_Subaru Solar_Subaru is offline
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Ok. I'll check out the a vw diesel forum about the noise, but I think it is either piston slap or preignition. the motor doesn't make the noise until the injection is on. There is some great information on here about precompressor WI though. This is great!!! I'll go looking for any possible posts on making water jets for a fine mist spray. I picked up a SNOW PERFORMANCE water injection kit used today, but I think the jet is way too big. I think the pump is good for 150 psi. This should be good right?

Thanks for the relplies!
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88 Megasquirt Toyota Pickup
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Old 31-03-2006, 12:46 AM
Obscene_CNN Obscene_CNN is offline
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I'll say it again. If you inject water before the turbo you will erode your compressor wheel.

Whether it is a fine mist or a thin jet this is the result


EDITED For better viewing (admin)

In other words, don't do it.
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  #6  
Old 31-03-2006, 03:20 AM
Solar_Subaru Solar_Subaru is offline
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Thank you for the very convincing evidence. was this your turbo? what size is the compressor wheel? how long did it take for this to happen? the picture really drives your point home.
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88 Megasquirt Toyota Pickup
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  #7  
Old 31-03-2006, 05:31 PM
Obscene_CNN Obscene_CNN is offline
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It wasn't my turbo. This picture was posted in this forum by someone else. It took about a year for this damage to occur.

for more info
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/vie...73c740216f4313
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  #8  
Old 02-04-2006, 02:32 PM
JohnA JohnA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solar_Subaru
Thank you for the very convincing evidence. was this your turbo?
what size is the compressor wheel? how long did it take for this to happen? the picture really drives your point home.
It does indeed.
Running without an airfilter (or a "performance" cone) can seriously hurt your compressor blades (let alone valve seats and piston rings)

(i.e. don't jump into conclusions without experimenting under controlled conditions and changing only one parameter at a time) :wink:
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  #9  
Old 03-04-2006, 02:38 AM
Solar_Subaru Solar_Subaru is offline
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Fair enough.
I am almost at the point of running what I have until the little sucker (no pun intended) lets go. I bought this car to experiment with biodiesel and Vegetable oil a couple of years ago. It has already more than paid for itself in fuel savings. I do still run the stock air filter because it is probably more than adequate. So I really wouldn't have any problem with shrapnel in the intake charge. That compressor wheel did look awfully dirty, especially for one with water being injected into it. Even my diesel turbo compressor is cleaner than that.

I am in the process of getting my Cosworth turbo 2 liter project together, and am considering water injection INSTEAD of intercooling. I have to do some more seaching on the forum, but so far, it seems feasible.

Thanks
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88 Megasquirt Toyota Pickup
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  #10  
Old 03-04-2006, 07:51 AM
JohnA JohnA is offline
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The guy who posted this (admittedly distressing) closeup had also run the turbo in the meantime with no filter at all.
This can lead VERY quickly to compressor damage. The extent and shape of the damage depends on the atmospheric condition in that place (fine dust, whatever...)
There is no way we can say that this damage was from the water injection (which I think wasn't even a fine mist to start with) or the lack of air filtration.

The jury is still out there --- we need a controlled test
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