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  #11  
Old 15-06-2010, 08:58 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

Before you do that, please read the voltage at test pin16 against ground, This shows what the controller sees.

0-5V = 0-100% DC.

Richard
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  #12  
Old 15-06-2010, 08:59 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

If possible, please take a picture of the circuit board of the controller.
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  #13  
Old 15-06-2010, 09:09 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

Just realise, you have a scope!

I suppose there is no harm done with a capacitor as it has a large valve, it is unlikely to swing below ground level. It might not work because thereare no ground path on the H3 side.

Please describe the waveform of the injector pulse. Let me know if it is not a peak and hold circuitry.
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  #14  
Old 15-06-2010, 10:10 PM
Ilkka Ilkka is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
Before you do that, please read the voltage at test pin16 against ground, This shows what the controller sees.

0-5V = 0-100% DC.

Richard
Pin16 against ground on the board was 5.22V.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
If possible, please take a picture of the circuit board of the controller.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
Just realise, you have a scope!

I suppose there is no harm done with a capacitor as it has a large valve, it is unlikely to swing below ground level. It might not work because thereare no ground path on the H3 side.

Please describe the waveform of the injector pulse. Let me know if it is not a peak and hold circuitry.
Will do that tomorrow, now it's getting too late.

The capacitor didn't do anything.

I measured the voltage between an unconnected injector- wire and ground, it was 10.8V. Once the injector- is connected to the ECU pin3, the voltage drops to 0.12V (all at pre-crank). At the same time the injector+ sees around 11.8V.

This is what I found on the Trionic 5 injection system:

"The fuel injector valves are of solenoid type with needle and seat. They are opened by a current flowing through the injectors coil and are closed by a strong spring when the current is switched off. To ensure as optimal combustion as possible and with that lower exhaust emission the injectors are equipped with four holes, which gives a good distribution of the fuel. The squirts of fuel are very exact positioned (two jets on the backside on each inlet valve). This put very high demands on the fixation of the injectors. To secure this fixation the injectors are fixed in pairs by a special retainer between cylinders 1 – 2 and 3 – 4. The injectors are electrically supplied from the main relay, while the ECU grounds the injectors."

Last edited by Ilkka; 15-06-2010 at 10:20 PM.
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  #15  
Old 15-06-2010, 10:33 PM
Ilkka Ilkka is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

After reading this, I'm 100% certain that my injectors are saturated. They are Siemens Deka 630cc, 12 ohms.
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  #16  
Old 15-06-2010, 10:45 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

On the HFS3, you put the jumper link to FDC to see what the injectors are doing via the bar graph on the gauge. This way you don't need a DVM to measure pin16.

12 ohm injectors are usually saturated driven.

Can you measure the voltage of the injector (+) at the pre-crank key position.
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  #17  
Old 15-06-2010, 10:52 PM
Ilkka Ilkka is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
On the HFS3, you put the jumper link to FDC to see what the injectors are doing via the bar graph on the gauge. This way you don't need a DVM to measure pin16.

12 ohm injectors are usually saturated driven.

Can you measure the voltage of the injector (+) at the pre-crank key position.
I've already posted it, it's around 12V (11.5-12.5V depending how long the car has been sitting since the last start-up).
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  #18  
Old 15-06-2010, 10:56 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

Sorrym I should have read it more carefully.

.. at pre-cranking key position..........
This is strange. the presence of the injector (+) should not trigger the system unless the injector (-) is >0.5V below 11.5-12.5V. This how the H3 defines a ground pulse.
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  #19  
Old 15-06-2010, 10:59 PM
Ilkka Ilkka is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
Sorrym I should have read it more carefully.

.. at pre-cranking key position..........
This is strange. the presence of the injector (+) should not trigger the system unless the injector (-) is >0.5V below 11.5-12.5V. This how the H3 defines a ground pulse.
Well injector- is 10.8V against ground when not connected to ECU pin3. When connected, injector- vs. ground drops down to 0.12V.
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  #20  
Old 15-06-2010, 11:05 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

One more measurement tomorrow. Voltage difference between P60 and J67 in pre-crank position. It is possible the fuel pump is dragging down the voltage at J67, so that the voltage is more 0.5V below P60. Under this condition, the system will trgger un-unintended.
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