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  #21  
Old 15-06-2010, 11:08 PM
Ilkka Ilkka is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

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Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
One more measurement tomorrow. Voltage difference between P60 and J67 in pre-crank position. It is possible the fuel pump is dragging down the voltage at J67, so that the voltage is more 0.5V below P60. Under this condition, the system will trgger un-unintended.
That's easy because voltage at J67 in pre-crank is 0V, as discovered a few posts back.

I don't understand how J67 has anything to do with this? Injector+ (and also main power) is connected to the pin60, and injector- to the pin3.

Also fuel pump starts only for a 2-3 seconds at pre-crank position and doesn't start again until the engine is started. The HFS-3 is still in yellow light mode during this.

Last edited by Ilkka; 15-06-2010 at 11:29 PM.
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  #22  
Old 15-06-2010, 11:19 PM
Ilkka Ilkka is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

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Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
Sorrym I should have read it more carefully.

.. at pre-cranking key position..........
This is strange. the presence of the injector (+) should not trigger the system unless the injector (-) is >0.5V below 11.5-12.5V. This how the H3 defines a ground pulse.
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Originally Posted by Ilkka View Post
Well injector- is 10.8V against ground when not connected to ECU pin3. When connected, injector- vs. ground drops down to 0.12V.
Isn't this the problem? Injector- is 10.8V (or actually 0.12V when connected to ECU pin3) when injector+ is 12V? Higher than 0.5V difference.

I don't understand why injector- goes down to 0.12V when connected to ECU pin3. The pin3 must be grounded during pre-crank, otherwise it doesn't make sense.

What's between those two wires (injector + and -) inside the box?

Last edited by Ilkka; 15-06-2010 at 11:53 PM.
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  #23  
Old 16-06-2010, 08:35 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

This is very strange.

The two wires of the HFS-3:

Red: ............ + reference of a comparator input
Green: ........... - reference of a comparator input

The trigger differential is set to ~0.5V between those two points. Ie is the voltage of green wire is 0.5V below the red wire, the system sees it as a starting point of the injector firing.

From the diagram J67 appears to be the main +12V supply to all the injectors and other devices. So I can safely assume that I can use J67 as a (+) reference for the +12V.

If you can post a larger diagram of the ECU that has p60 included so I can see what else is connected to that pin.
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  #24  
Old 16-06-2010, 08:37 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

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Originally Posted by Ilkka View Post
Isn't this the problem? Injector- is 10.8V (or actually 0.12V when connected to ECU pin3) when injector+ is 12V? Higher than 0.5V difference.

I don't understand why injector- goes down to 0.12V when connected to ECU pin3. The pin3 must be grounded during pre-crank, otherwise it doesn't make sense.

What's between those two wires (injector + and -) inside the box?
If pin 3 is grounded the fuel injector must be firing at 100%, if there is 12V on the other side of the fuel injector.
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  #25  
Old 16-06-2010, 09:21 AM
Ilkka Ilkka is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

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Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
If pin 3 is grounded the fuel injector must be firing at 100%, if there is 12V on the other side of the fuel injector.
Yes but there isn't 12V on the other side during pre-crank. The J67 get's powered up only once the car is actually started. And then the pin3's continuous ground switches to normal pulsing ground.
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  #26  
Old 16-06-2010, 02:20 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

Ideally, put the red wire on J67 and green on pin3. The system can only be used after the engine is running, is it acceptable?

During cranking, the system will not inject because there is a 10 second start-up timer to disable WI activating.

If you want to switch on the system before cranking, you have to disconnect the green wire from the injector(-).
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  #27  
Old 16-06-2010, 02:48 PM
Ilkka Ilkka is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

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Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
Ideally, put the red wire on J67 and green on pin3. The system can only be used after the engine is running, is it acceptable?

During cranking, the system will not inject because there is a 10 second start-up timer to disable WI activating.

If you want to switch on the system before cranking, you have to disconnect the green wire from the injector(-).
Yes, that's acceptable and that's what I am planning to do next. Then I try a proper high IDC road test to see if the system is activated by the IDC.
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  #28  
Old 16-06-2010, 06:47 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

We will move on to test the working of the system next. This will allow me time to find a way around this.
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  #29  
Old 16-06-2010, 07:40 PM
Ilkka Ilkka is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

I can confirm that the system is working. Even though the THRES led lit during standstill revving on the parking lot, it wasn't enough to trigger the system to spray. Once I got on the road and was able to push it harder, the nozzle started to spray.

Can you guess why the THRES led lights too early?

Now I need to empty the tank from water and put the 50/50 mixture in. Then starts the fine-tuning.

Last edited by Ilkka; 16-06-2010 at 07:43 PM.
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  #30  
Old 16-06-2010, 09:14 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Strange setup problems

You can diagnose this by putting the jumper to FDC and watch the gauge what the system is seeing.
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