waterinjection.info  

Go Back   waterinjection.info > Water/Methanol database on specific model of cars > Your one-stop search for water/methanol injected cars

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 04-12-2005, 04:29 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default

I forgot, if the air temperature sensor is seeing lower temperatures, it will add more fuel?

Richard
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-12-2005, 05:31 PM
ashtal ashtal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 40
Default

I know gelf has his jets in the same positoion as mike. Did he have any problems ? Mind you he is running a 2d setup !

If the water is injected before the temp sensor surely the engine is getting cooler air and leans the mixture out and advances the timing ?

What mixture of water / methnol is being run in mikes car ?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-12-2005, 07:05 PM
Porschetuner Porschetuner is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Germany. City: Gummersbach near Cologne
Posts: 1
Default

Hi,
I`m new in the forum. Searched for "Temp.Sensor" and found this thread.
We did an installation of the 2D system at a Porsche 933 twin-turbo engine with KKK24/26 Turbochargers and 540 BHB w/o WI system.
After we installed the system we some problems at the point of activation of the water-jet. Something like stucking accures.
We installed the water nozzle directly opposite of the temp-sensor inside of the intercooler approx. 15 cm in front of the butterfly. We think, that the spray on the temp-sensor will be the reason for this behavior. The A/F mixture is to rich for the reason of the "goiing more rich and ign. advance effect" of the ECU.
For better investigation of this problem we will install a complete Datalogging/AFR Displaying unit in next days. Also we want to install a second temp-sensor in the intake manifold after the throttle-body. So we can compare the readings of the original sensor (which affect the ECU injection signal ! ) with the real intake temperature of the air.

I think, that we need to measure the real intake temperature of the air at the relevant input signal sensor. Richard, you are right ! The closer the waternozzle to the temp sensor the more the readings will go down. The sensor is directly placed in the water/air stream and it could be possible that due to a condensation effect of the water the readings are not realistic. Fact is, that the injection time is going up and that means that the ignition behavior of the A/F mixture is dropping so that some sort of stucking is possible.
Next week we will do the same installtion at a Porsche 996 twin-turbo.
Will keep you informed !


rgds
Thomas
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-12-2005, 07:15 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default

Thomas,

Thanks for the input.

I am suspect this might be the case, the Astra was loosing so much power that water along can not be held responible expecially the water jet has been reduce to 0.4mm from 0.5mm. A 40cc/min flow reduction.

Mike is experience the same power drop effect.

Even the air temperature is quite low in England (8 to 9C), the methanol is still evaporating and if it hiots the temperature sensorm it will supercool the sensor and make the car runs too rich.

I will wait for Mike's comment , if he is willing to relocate the sensor before the water spray so it won't get sprayed.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-12-2005, 07:18 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashtal
I know gelf has his jets in the same positoion as mike. Did he have any problems ? Mind you he is running a 2d setup !

If the water is injected before the temp sensor surely the engine is getting cooler air and leans the mixture out and advances the timing ?

What mixture of water / methnol is being run in mikes car ?
I think the engine will do the opposite, if the air is colder, it should increase fuel and not leaning it.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-12-2005, 10:11 PM
MikeWarner MikeWarner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Default

Richard. I relocate the jet after the sensor. I'll try to do this soon. I think I have a blank somewhere for the old jet position.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-12-2005, 07:21 AM
PuntoRex PuntoRex is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 75
Default

Be cautious about triming the MAF signal.

Some ECU might 'work around' the changed signal & keep the a/f constant by the O2 sensor feedback. I suspect, it does so even in open loop mode...

I've tried triming the MAF signal by more than 20% of the voltage, but the ECU eventually adapted to it & kept the engine running in the original condition. All I've done to the MAF signal seems in vain.

Later I tried to trim the O2 sensor signal, by very small steps, then it worked. So I guess in this case, the O2 sensor signal is in a higher priority than the MAF in fueling control. Interceptor has its own limitation in such cases.

This was my own experience with Bosch Motronic ECU. It might be varied a lot in different cars. For your reference.
__________________
'97 Fiat Punto GT
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-12-2005, 10:48 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
Manufacturer sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 4,936
Default

Thanks for the input, I would only trim the region where water injecting is activated.

I am not sure if the Astra uses a wideband or not, but I don;t think I will go anywhere near the closed-loop region. That was my plan anyway.

I will trim the fuel's duty cycle as the last option, seemed more complicated way but can be done within our ability.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-12-2005, 10:51 AM
MikeWarner MikeWarner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Default

I have been told previously that the lamba doesn't have a clue what is going on at higher revs as it isn't quick enough to react.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-12-2005, 11:08 AM
PuntoRex PuntoRex is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 75
Default

hmm....

As I see in my homebrewed O2 signal display, in the mid-high rpm range, the up-down voltage sweeping is pretty quick. At 4500rpm or slightly above, if throttle input is small, the engine is still in close loop. At this stage, the voltage is bumping up & down quickly. If the padel is depressed, the signal will go high & stay. I think the reaction is quick enough.

If the exhaut gas monitoring-feedback system is too slow, how can it catch up with changing load & keep the a/f right?
__________________
'97 Fiat Punto GT
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.